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Old July 5th 07, 08:10 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Curiosity about delays

Just wondering what the average length of delay is across the Tube network.
The Customer Charter allows anyone to claim refunds for a delay of 15
minutes or more. I'm guessing therefore that the overall average would be
lower than this.

On another note, but kinda related - how much extra time do you factor in
for delays whilst travelling to work to ensure you get there in time. I
leave at 8:30am for a journey from Blackhorse Road to Brent Cross to arrive
for 10am and still can often be 5 mins late



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Old July 5th 07, 09:58 PM posted to uk.transport.london
Fig Fig is offline
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Default Curiosity about delays

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:10:29 +0100, Nicola Redwood
wrote:

Just wondering what the average length of delay is across the Tube
network.


I'm sure Stato will be along soon

On another note, but kinda related - how much extra time do you factor in
for delays whilst travelling to work to ensure you get there in time. I
leave at 8:30am for a journey from Blackhorse Road to Brent Cross to
arrive
for 10am and still can often be 5 mins late


I allow 90 mins for my 60 min journey from Finchley Rd to West Drayton but
never
normally see a delay of more than 15 mins.

--
Fig
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Old July 5th 07, 10:13 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Curiosity about delays

On Jul 5, 9:10 pm, "Nicola Redwood" nicolaexternal-
wrote:
Just wondering what the average length of delay is across the Tube network.
The Customer Charter allows anyone to claim refunds for a delay of 15
minutes or more. I'm guessing therefore that the overall average would be
lower than this.

On another note, but kinda related - how much extra time do you factor in
for delays whilst travelling to work to ensure you get there in time. I
leave at 8:30am for a journey from Blackhorse Road to Brent Cross to arrive
for 10am and still can often be 5 mins late


There are different forms of delay.

The big one (and in my opinion the truest one) is the NAQS - Lost
Customer Hours. This is how much time of your life is "lost" when
travelling. This also forms a key part of the cost of delays to LUL's
Contractors: Metronet, Tubelines, edf, Connect, Network Rail etc.

The other sort of delay is Initial delay, which LUL usually quote in
their performance stats as being a delay over 15 minutes. These sorts
of delays are not normally within the control of LUL, hence why they
use it. SPADs and Staff Errors can cause delays over 15 mins,whereas
Operator Not Available may only be a few minutes.
Also the Initial Delay is a bit of a con, as it is only the Next train
to the Next station. So for instance an Amersham train from Baker
Street is only going to Wembley as there is no Operator, the next one
would be in 10 or 20 minutes time. The Initial Delay would only be 5
minutes - The next train from Wembley to Harrow.

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Old July 5th 07, 10:29 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Curiosity about delays

On Thu, 5 Jul 2007 21:10:29 +0100, "Nicola Redwood"
wrote:

Just wondering what the average length of delay is across the Tube network.
The Customer Charter allows anyone to claim refunds for a delay of 15
minutes or more. I'm guessing therefore that the overall average would be
lower than this.


Don't know if there is an official number but I'd guess from my
knowledge of incidents it was somewhere around the 5-8 minute level as
an average. Yes you get far worse disruptions than this but they are
relatively rare when set against the high volume of short duration
delays that may not be noticeable by some passengers.

On another note, but kinda related - how much extra time do you factor in
for delays whilst travelling to work to ensure you get there in time. I
leave at 8:30am for a journey from Blackhorse Road to Brent Cross to arrive
for 10am and still can often be 5 mins late


I'd allow at least 20 minutes BHR - Kings Cross, 10 mins to change and
wait for an Edgware train and then maybe 25 mins KX - Brent Cross
allowing for a possible crawl through Camden Town junctions. Are you
just going to Brent Cross station or catching a 210 bus on to the
shopping centre? I'd add at least another 20 mins if catching a bus as
at that time of day the bus service will be wrecked in the aftermath of
the school run congestion.

You have my sympathies though - that type of journey is not very easy on
London's transport network. Ideally you should be able to make a quick
orbital journey instead. I'd almost be tempted to try the Overground
train from BHR to Upper Holloway and then take a short walk to Archway
tube station to pick up the 210 bus direct to Brent Cross. Although the
train is only every 30 mins or so it shuttles across to Holloway quite
quickly. Might be worth an experiment one day to see how it goes. When
TfL take over the line they propose increasing the frequency to a train
every 15 minutes which I think would make it a more viable proposition
in terms of less risk of a long wait for a train.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!




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Old July 5th 07, 10:29 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Curiosity about delays

On Jul 5, 11:13 pm, chunky munky
wrote:
On Jul 5, 9:10 pm, "Nicola Redwood" nicolaexternal-

wrote:
Just wondering what the average length of delay is across the Tube network.
The Customer Charter allows anyone to claim refunds for a delay of 15
minutes or more. I'm guessing therefore that the overall average would be
lower than this.


On another note, but kinda related - how much extra time do you factor in
for delays whilst travelling to work to ensure you get there in time. I
leave at 8:30am for a journey from Blackhorse Road to Brent Cross to arrive
for 10am and still can often be 5 mins late


There are different forms of delay.

The big one (and in my opinion the truest one) is the NAQS - Lost
Customer Hours. This is how much time of your life is "lost" when
travelling. This also forms a key part of the cost of delays to LUL's
Contractors: Metronet, Tubelines, edf, Connect, Network Rail etc.

The other sort of delay is Initial delay, which LUL usually quote in
their performance stats as being a delay over 15 minutes. These sorts
of delays are not normally within the control of LUL, hence why they
use it. SPADs and Staff Errors can cause delays over 15 mins,whereas
Operator Not Available may only be a few minutes.
Also the Initial Delay is a bit of a con, as it is only the Next train
to the Next station. So for instance an Amersham train from Baker
Street is only going to Wembley as there is no Operator, the next one
would be in 10 or 20 minutes time. The Initial Delay would only be 5
minutes - The next train from Wembley to Harrow.


Also just to add. It is up to the Service Controller (acting as a
Line Controller) or Service Manager is they want to to book a delay,
known as an Item.
The item is given an Initial Delay, as well as any cancellations or
reformed trains, short trippings, suspensions and brief incident
details. This is then given to an LUL Duty Manager or Supervisor to
investigate, and fill in the gaps.
All this data is recorded on a daily performance review called a
Failures & Delays sheet. Contractors look at this to see how much the
guess they will have to pay out each day in penalty abatements.

All the sums to work out costs, lost customer hours are done by a
separate office.

It is not past LUL to change certain LUL delays/cancellations round to
"fiddle" their perfomance statistics!



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Old July 5th 07, 10:38 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Curiosity about delays

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 15:29:41 -0700, chunky munky
wrote:

On Jul 5, 11:13 pm, chunky munky
wrote:
On Jul 5, 9:10 pm, "Nicola Redwood" nicolaexternal-

wrote:
Just wondering what the average length of delay is across the Tube network.
The Customer Charter allows anyone to claim refunds for a delay of 15
minutes or more. I'm guessing therefore that the overall average would be
lower than this.


On another note, but kinda related - how much extra time do you factor in
for delays whilst travelling to work to ensure you get there in time. I
leave at 8:30am for a journey from Blackhorse Road to Brent Cross to arrive
for 10am and still can often be 5 mins late


There are different forms of delay.

The big one (and in my opinion the truest one) is the NAQS - Lost
Customer Hours. This is how much time of your life is "lost" when
travelling. This also forms a key part of the cost of delays to LUL's
Contractors: Metronet, Tubelines, edf, Connect, Network Rail etc.


Actually it is NACHs - Nominally Accumulated Customer Hours which is the
name of the measure. A NAX is a unit of measure which equals 100 lost
customer hours.

All this data is recorded on a daily performance review called a
Failures & Delays sheet. Contractors look at this to see how much the
guess they will have to pay out each day in penalty abatements.


I can assure they don't guess. They have people paid to work this out in
very great detail minute by minute.

All the sums to work out costs, lost customer hours are done by a
separate office.


Yes - I run one of them.

It is not past LUL to change certain LUL delays/cancellations round to
"fiddle" their perfomance statistics!


I think you need to be careful about what is implied from your
statement. All sorts of people read these groups.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

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Old July 5th 07, 10:39 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Curiosity about delays

On Jul 5, 11:38 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 15:29:41 -0700, chunky munky



wrote:
On Jul 5, 11:13 pm, chunky munky
wrote:
On Jul 5, 9:10 pm, "Nicola Redwood" nicolaexternal-


wrote:
Just wondering what the average length of delay is across the Tube network.
The Customer Charter allows anyone to claim refunds for a delay of 15
minutes or more. I'm guessing therefore that the overall average would be
lower than this.


On another note, but kinda related - how much extra time do you factor in
for delays whilst travelling to work to ensure you get there in time. I
leave at 8:30am for a journey from Blackhorse Road to Brent Cross to arrive
for 10am and still can often be 5 mins late


There are different forms of delay.


The big one (and in my opinion the truest one) is the NAQS - Lost
Customer Hours. This is how much time of your life is "lost" when
travelling. This also forms a key part of the cost of delays to LUL's
Contractors: Metronet, Tubelines, edf, Connect, Network Rail etc.


Actually it is NACHs - Nominally Accumulated Customer Hours which is the
name of the measure. A NAX is a unit of measure which equals 100 lost
customer hours.

All this data is recorded on a daily performance review called a
Failures & Delays sheet. Contractors look at this to see how much the
guess they will have to pay out each day in penalty abatements.


I can assure they don't guess. They have people paid to work this out in
very great detail minute by minute.

All the sums to work out costs, lost customer hours are done by a
separate office.


Yes - I run one of them.

--
Paul C

Admits to working for London Underground!


I was hoping youwould come along to comment fill in these gaps!

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Old July 6th 07, 02:02 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Curiosity about delays

On Jul 5, 9:10 pm, "Nicola Redwood" nicolaexternal-
wrote:
Just wondering what the average length of delay is across the Tube network.
The Customer Charter allows anyone to claim refunds for a delay of 15
minutes or more. I'm guessing therefore that the overall average would be
lower than this.


I believe some of the longest delays may be removed by recent changes
to the LUL Rule book.

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Old July 6th 07, 05:06 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Curiosity about delays

Offramp wrote:
On Jul 5, 9:10 pm, "Nicola Redwood" nicolaexternal-
wrote:
Just wondering what the average length of delay is across the Tube
network. The Customer Charter allows anyone to claim refunds for a
delay of 15 minutes or more. I'm guessing therefore that the
overall average would be lower than this.


I believe some of the longest delays may be removed by recent
changes to the LUL Rule book.


Such as?

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)
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Old July 6th 07, 05:22 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Curiosity about delays

On Jul 6, 6:06 pm, "Richard J." wrote:
Offramp wrote:
On Jul 5, 9:10 pm, "Nicola Redwood" nicolaexternal-
wrote:
Just wondering what the average length of delay is across the Tube
network. The Customer Charter allows anyone to claim refunds for a
delay of 15 minutes or more. I'm guessing therefore that the
overall average would be lower than this.


I believe some of the longest delays may be removed by recent
changes to the LUL Rule book.


Such as?

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)


Dont know what they're talking about! Lots of rules have been taken
out or been made more ambiguous than they were before and often no
longer require the use of Station Staff - though in reality they are
still sent as they save time.

The 15 min charter still applies and delays will still last as long as
they did before, based upon the usual factors such as time, location,
number of trains in the area, knowledge and capability of staff
dealing with the situation and availabilty of Train Operators.



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