On 2 Apr, 13:52, MIG wrote:
On 26 Mar, 20:26, Mizter T wrote:



On 26 Mar, 16:48, MIG wrote:

On 26 Mar, 15:10, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"Paul Scott" wrote:

"Boltar" wrote:

Is the passageway to Monument closed for some reason?

I read somewhere a few weeks ago that suggested nothing is actually
closed, its just that a couple of escalators are stopped for maintenance,
and are being used as fixed steps, which can be difficult for some people
to use. Hence the 'scare stories' are being used as a deterrent just to
keep the numbers of interchanging pax down compared to normal.

Which may have been true then, but obviously not from next week I see...

As ever, they give only directions rather than information. I still
can't work out whether they are encouraging people to avoid the
station because it's going to be difficult, or whether a number of
escalator-free passageways will actually be blocked.

Also, as has been hinted at, if you can't interchange between the
Central and the Northern, how can you enter or exit the Northern?
Will they close both the surface passageway between Lombard Street and
the main ticket office and the deep one via the spiral staircases?

I admire your sentiments, but I'm not convinced it'd really be wise to
follow your course of action. If LU in fact said that it is in fact a
sly back route between Bank and Monument then perhaps loads of
passengers would attempt to use it, leading to the possibility of
massive congestion and overcrowding on a route that simply didn't have
the capacity for all these people.

Perhaps this is just a case of wily passengers working out where the
holes in the system are so they can take advantage of them, whilst the
less inquisitive majority follow the official advice and thus don't
block up the whole station.

If all the shortcuts at stations around the Underground network were
made explicit then overall we'd be worse off. An element of herding is
necessary when dealing with the shear number of people that use the
Tube.

I had a partial look during daytime today (it could be different at
different times) while coming out of the DLR.

The escalators at the north end of the DLR are both going upwards (not
sure how you'd get into the DLR, maybe via Lombard Street ticket hall
and Northern Line).

That gets you to the area just up form the north end of the Northern
Line. The next escalators upwards from there are working, but routes
to the Central are closed off, both the lower passageway to the spiral
staircases and, if you go up the escalators, the staircase back down
that comes out further west along the Central platforms, so at the top
of those escalators, you are diverted to the escalators to the Lombard
Street ticket hall, at which you can exit, go through the sub-surface
subway, and go back into the Central via the main ticket hall.
(Presumably treated as a continuation for PAYG.)

There seems to have been a very determined decision to block the non-
escalator parts of routes to/from the Central Line at the side of the
station complex where no renewal work now seems to be going on. The
work is presumably at the Monument end.

I used Monument last night to get to the Northern Line. The escalators
between Monument and Northern Line are operating normally. However the
escalators from Monument to the DLR (which forms the main route to the
other lines at Bank) were completely closed and fenced off.

PaulO

On 2 Apr, 14:11, Paul Oter wrote:
On 2 Apr, 13:52, MIG wrote:





On 26 Mar, 20:26, Mizter T wrote:

On 26 Mar, 16:48, MIG wrote:

On 26 Mar, 15:10, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"Paul Scott" wrote:

"Boltar" wrote:

Is the passageway to Monument closed for some reason?

I read somewhere a few weeks ago that suggested nothing is actually
closed, its just that a couple of escalators are stopped for maintenance,
and are being used as fixed steps, which can be difficult for some people
to use. Hence the 'scare stories' are being used as a deterrent just to
keep the numbers of interchanging pax down compared to normal.

Which may have been true then, but obviously not from next week I see...

As ever, they give only directions rather than information. *I still
can't work out whether they are encouraging people to avoid the
station because it's going to be difficult, or whether a number of
escalator-free passageways will actually be blocked.

Also, as has been hinted at, if you can't interchange between the
Central and the Northern, how can you enter or exit the Northern?
Will they close both the surface passageway between Lombard Street and
the main ticket office and the deep one via the spiral staircases?

I admire your sentiments, but I'm not convinced it'd really be wise to
follow your course of action. If LU in fact said that it is in fact a
sly back route between Bank and Monument then perhaps loads of
passengers would attempt to use it, leading to the possibility of
massive congestion and overcrowding on a route that simply didn't have
the capacity for all these people.

Perhaps this is just a case of wily passengers working out where the
holes in the system are so they can take advantage of them, whilst the
less inquisitive majority follow the official advice and thus don't
block up the whole station.

If all the shortcuts at stations around the Underground network were
made explicit then overall we'd be worse off. An element of herding is
necessary when dealing with the shear number of people that use the
Tube.

I had a partial look during daytime today (it could be different at
different times) while coming out of the DLR.

The escalators at the north end of the DLR are both going upwards (not
sure how you'd get into the DLR, maybe via Lombard Street ticket hall
and Northern Line).

That gets you to the area just up form the north end of the Northern
Line. *The next escalators upwards from there are working, but routes
to the Central are closed off, both the lower passageway to the spiral
staircases and, if you go up the escalators, the staircase back down
that comes out further west along the Central platforms, so at the top
of those escalators, you are diverted to the escalators to the Lombard
Street ticket hall, at which you can exit, go through the sub-surface
subway, and go back into the Central via the main ticket hall.
(Presumably treated as a continuation for PAYG.)

There seems to have been a very determined decision to block the non-
escalator parts of routes to/from the Central Line at the side of the
station complex where no renewal work now seems to be going on. The
work is presumably at the Monument end.

I used Monument last night to get to the Northern Line. The escalators
between Monument and Northern Line are operating normally. However the
escalators from Monument to the DLR (which forms the main route to the
other lines at Bank) were completely closed and fenced off.

So it sounds as if the whole of what used to be the route from the
Central to both the Northern and Monument is still intact and usable,
and in addition to that there is a parallel route from the Central to
the Northern, built for the DLR.

All that seems to be missing is the route from the DLR to Monument
(which I know is the main directed route to use from the Central to
Monument nowadays, but didn't used to be).

The logic seems to be "blocked routes in a station cause congestion
and put safety at risk, therefore if there is one blocked route, we
should block additional routes so that the congestion will get even
worse and discourage people from using the station, making it safer".

Trying to put my finger on the flaw ...

On 2 Apr, 14:53, MIG wrote:
So it sounds as if the whole of what used to be the route from the
Central to both the Northern and Monument is still intact and usable,
and in addition to that there is a parallel route from the Central to
the Northern, built for the DLR.

No, the only place you can go from the north end of the Northern/DLR
is the Lombard Street ticket hall, either by lift or escalator.

(plug: a diagram of what's open is on my blog)

All that seems to be missing is the route from the DLR to Monument

Up the stairs to the Northern, then there's a direct route to
Monument.

The logic seems to be "blocked routes in a station cause congestion
and put safety at risk, therefore if there is one blocked route, we
should block additional routes so that the congestion will get even
worse and discourage people from using the station, making it safer".

Absolutely.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On Apr 2, 10:02*pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 2 Apr, 14:53, MIG wrote:

So it sounds as if the whole of what used to be the route from the
Central to both the Northern and Monument is still intact and usable,
and in addition to that there is a parallel route from the Central to
the Northern, built for the DLR.

No, the only place you can go from the north end of the Northern/DLR
is the Lombard Street ticket hall, either by lift or escalator.

Sorry, I meant that the spiral and passageway route is intact and
usable if only the gates hadn't been shut. It isn't having escalator
work done, same as the route to the Central from the top of the
escalator.

There only seems to be one route being worked on (DLR to Monument),
while the other blockages are of otherwise usable routes. I wonder
how much greater problems, congestion and inconvenience are being
caused by the decision to close so many passageways that are perfectly
usable than would be by caused by one lot of escalator work.

If they really don't want people nipping along the Northern platforms
to get to Monument (which everyone did for decades before), why not
just close both routes to Monument. I really can't see any reason to
stop people changing from the Central to the Northern and DLR.


(plug: a diagram of what's open is on my blog)

All that seems to be missing is the route from the DLR to Monument

Up the stairs to the Northern, then there's a direct route to
Monument.

The logic seems to be "blocked routes in a station cause congestion
and put safety at risk, therefore if there is one blocked route, we
should block additional routes so that the congestion will get even
worse and discourage people from using the station, making it safer".

Absolutely.

U

--http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

In article
,
(Mr Thant) wrote:

*Subject:* march 2008 tube map poster spotted
*From:* Mr Thant
*Date:* Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:02:13 -0700 (PDT)

On 2 Apr, 14:53, MIG wrote:
So it sounds as if the whole of what used to be the route from the
Central to both the Northern and Monument is still intact and
usable,
and in addition to that there is a parallel route from the
Central to
the Northern, built for the DLR.

No, the only place you can go from the north end of the Northern/DLR
is the Lombard Street ticket hall, either by lift or escalator.

(plug: a diagram of what's open is on my blog)

"seven banks of escalators (15 individual escalators) sever the station"

Like it!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

At 06:02:21 on Wed, 26 Mar 2008 Abigail Brady opined:-

Manor House had the March 2008 tube map poster this morning. Not very
exciting. Notes

*sponsored very prominently by Ikea
*Heathrow Terminal 5 shown as open, no notes
*Bank-Monument still shown as interchange
*Broad Street Viaduct and New Cross Gate-Crystal Palace/West Croydon
gone
*ELP gone, replaced with the Number 381
*no indication of West Hampstead Thameslink

Picked up the pocket version yesterday. I note that it says that
Shepherd's Bush WLL station will open "late 2008". Let's hope that's
right.

Wood Lane H&C is also shown as opening late 2008.
--
Thoss

In article , Sarah Brown
writes
Which of these is now the Kybher pass?

It's the one it always was - the subway that leads to the top of the
stairs at the eastern end of the circle line platforms (and which is
now signposted as the interchange route). Those stairs no-longer have
the (widely ignored) green arrows and red crosses there, and the whole
lot is now inside the fare-paid zone. The Kybher Pass occupies the
exact same space in 3D that it always did though.

Not quite.

Old layout (west at the top):

E -----------
E SSS / TTTT \
| SSS / TTTTTT \KK
+-------+====TTTTTT
|MM TTTTTT
E VV PP
E VV PP
VV PP

E = steps up to Euston Road
S = steps down to Circle Line (with green arrows and red crosses)
M = memorial plaque
T = tube ticket hall
V = Victoria Line escalator
P = Piccadilly Line escalator
K = to King's Cross main line station

The "Kybher Pass" was the short passageway I've shown as ====. I can
remember it having exit-only gates in it.

With the rebuild, the section of passage indicated as / has gone away
and the Kybher Pass and stairs S have moved into the fare-paid area.
There are fire doors where the plaque was, and the western stairs up to
Euston Road have been moved further west so as to connect with a new
cross-passage in the "free" zone.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
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