What will happen to SouthEastern train services into Blackfriars after
December 2008 - diverted to Victoria, cancelled, or will there be a limited
service continuing through to City Thameslink and terminating at Smithfield
sidings?

"eNautilus" wrote in message
...
What will happen to SouthEastern train services into Blackfriars after
December 2008 - diverted to Victoria, cancelled, or will there be a
limited service continuing through to City Thameslink and terminating at
Smithfield sidings?

They will be running through to at least Kentish Town, possibly further,
although March 2009 is now believed to be the start date.

FCC drivers are currently training on dual voltage 377s, a number of which
will be transferred from Southern.

Paul

On Jun 3, 9:57 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"eNautilus" wrote in message

...

What will happen to SouthEastern train services into Blackfriars after
December 2008 - diverted to Victoria, cancelled, or will there be a
limited service continuing through to City Thameslink and terminating at
Smithfield sidings?

They will be running through to at least Kentish Town, possibly further,
although March 2009 is now believed to be the start date.

FCC drivers are currently training on dual voltage 377s, a number of which
will be transferred from Southern.

I wonder if theres an argument for extending the 3rd rail to kentish
town so dual voltage stock isn't required.

B2003

On 4 Jun, 10:12, wrote:
I wonder if theres an argument for extending the 3rd rail to kentish
town so dual voltage stock isn't required.

It wouldn't be very useful. The interim arrangement is more about
having somewhere to send the peak services from the north with the
Moorgate branch gone. There's not really anywhere to terminate them,
so running them through as services to Kent (replacing the SET
Blackfriars services) is the only real option.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On 4 Jun, 10:12, wrote:
On Jun 3, 9:57 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

"eNautilus" wrote in message

...

What will happen to SouthEastern train services into Blackfriars after
December 2008 - diverted to Victoria, cancelled, or will there be a
limited service continuing through to City Thameslink and terminating at
Smithfield sidings?

They will be running through to at least Kentish Town, possibly further,
although March 2009 is now believed to be the start date.

FCC drivers are currently training on dual voltage 377s, a number of which
will be transferred from Southern.

I wonder if theres an argument for extending the 3rd rail to kentish
town so dual voltage stock isn't required.

Short answer: no, there isn't.

Longer answer: dual voltage stock is easy to make and reliable, and
all post-1994 DC stock either already is or easily can be converted to
dual voltage; laying third rail [and providing the high current
substations required] is expensive, time-consuming and disruptive; and
maintaining dual AC/DC electrification is technically quite difficult.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On 4 Jun, 10:56, Mr Thant
wrote:

On 4 Jun, 10:12, wrote:

I wonder if theres an argument for extending the 3rd rail to kentish
town so dual voltage stock isn't required.

Apart from any other reasons, this would be pretty costly, and require
the installation of a whole new array of kit and more substations.


It wouldn't be very useful. The interim arrangement is more about
having somewhere to send the peak services from the north with the
Moorgate branch gone. There's not really anywhere to terminate them,
so running them through as services to Kent (replacing the SET
Blackfriars services) is the only real option.


But that only accounts for the displaced peak (no-longer Moorgate
bound) Thameslink trains from points north.

I presume terminating the other off-peak trains at City Thameslink and
then perhaps parking them up in the Smithfield sidings until they're
due to head south again is considered impractical given the frequency
of trains on the core Thameslink route. At Kentish Town I presume the
benefit is that the fast Bedford trains will be on the fast tracks,
hence there's less opportunity for terminating/reversing trains to jam
up the whole Thameslink service. Still, I can see plenty of
opportunities for things to go snafu if trains are running late.

"Mr Thant" wrote in message
...


It wouldn't be very useful. The interim arrangement is more about
having somewhere to send the peak services from the north with the
Moorgate branch gone. There's not really anywhere to terminate them,
so running them through as services to Kent (replacing the SET
Blackfriars services) is the only real option.

U

What exactly is happening with the Moorgate branch?

wrote in message
...

"Mr Thant" wrote in message
...


It wouldn't be very useful. The interim arrangement is more about
having somewhere to send the peak services from the north with the
Moorgate branch gone. There's not really anywhere to terminate them,
so running them through as services to Kent (replacing the SET
Blackfriars services) is the only real option.

U

What exactly is happening with the Moorgate branch?

Permanent closure of the NR lines between Farringdon and Moorgate, primarily
so that the NR platforms at Farringdon can be extended southwards over the
existing junction for 12 car Thameslink trains. Secondly, the 24 tph
throughput planned for the central section could not operate across the flat
junction anyway, even if there was an alternative way of extending the
platforms - they can't extend to the north because of the diveunder to get
to the other side of the LU tracks.

Paul S

On 4 Jun, 20:44, wrote:

"Mr Thant" wrote:

It wouldn't be very useful. The interim arrangement is more about
having somewhere to send the peak services from the north with the
Moorgate branch gone. There's not really anywhere to terminate them,
so running them through as services to Kent (replacing the SET
Blackfriars services) is the only real option.


It's being shut. The platforms at Farringdon can't be extended to 12-
car length without fouling the junction towards Moorgate, so the
branch will be closed.

There are various suggestions here and elsewhere about the alignment
being used for stabling LU trains given that it's adjacent to the Met/
Circle/H&C, though nothing official.

Mizter T wrote:

I presume terminating the other off-peak trains at City Thameslink and
then perhaps parking them up in the Smithfield sidings until they're
due to head south again is considered impractical given the frequency
of trains on the core Thameslink route.

That is true, and according to Nick Lawford the sidings will close when
the Key Output 0 service starts.

At Kentish Town I presume the benefit is that the fast Bedford trains
will be on the fast tracks, hence there's less opportunity for
terminating/reversing trains to jam up the whole Thameslink service.

*All* cross-London FCC TL services use the Moorgate (TL) lines south of
Kentish Town Jn (between West Hampstead Thameslink and Kentish Town).
Using the same point of reference,* services on the fast and
slow/carriage (MML) lines reverse at London St Pancras (high-level) and
Kentish Town respectively.

It is expected that off-peak joint FCC TL/SER services will
start/terminate at Kentish Town on the Moorgate lines, but only by
virtue of heading ECS to/from Cricklewood sidings.

[* OK, Carlton Road Jn (also between WHP and KTN) is the point of
reference for the fast lines since Kentish Town Jn does not include them]