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Old September 4th 08, 10:36 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default New Year fare rises

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7597062.stm

Bus and Underground fares in London are to increase by an overall figure of
6% from the New Year, London Mayor Boris Johnson has announced.
Some fares will be cut, including a new off-peak rate aimed at encouraging
people to travel after 0930.
Mr Johnson blamed the rises on the "largesse" of previous mayor, Labour's
Ken Livingstone, accusing him of creating an 80m financial hole.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7364637.stm

suggests Ken would have made similar changes...


Paul S



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Old September 4th 08, 11:08 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default New Year fare rises

On Sep 4, 11:36*am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7597062.stm

Bus and Underground fares in London are to increase by an overall figure of
6% from the New Year, London Mayor Boris Johnson has announced.
Some fares will be cut, including a new off-peak rate aimed at encouraging
people to travel after 0930.


The press release at http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_...eleaseid=18677
has some detail of the new fares, in an incredibly badly formatted
table.

It mentions a new 0930-1600 off-peak period. I'm guessing that off-
peak picks up again after 1900, but there's no mention of this.

Another question is whether your off-peak day Travelcard will be valid
after 1600 - or will there be two markedly different off-peak periods,
depending on how you're paying?

While I'd imagine tourists arriving at Heathrow in the middle of the
day will be happy about being able to save 1.60, I suspect everyone
else will be totally baffled.


- martin
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Old September 4th 08, 02:05 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default New Year fare rises


"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7597062.stm

Bus and Underground fares in London are to increase by an overall figure
of 6% from the New Year, London Mayor Boris Johnson has announced.
Some fares will be cut, including a new off-peak rate aimed at encouraging
people to travel after 0930.
Mr Johnson blamed the rises on the "largesse" of previous mayor, Labour's
Ken Livingstone, accusing him of creating an 80m financial hole.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7364637.stm

suggests Ken would have made similar changes...


PS

The TfL press release including the figures is he

http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_...eleaseid=18677

There have been a number of discussions here in the past about PAYG capping
rules, especially concerning peak/off-peak, or standard/discount. The terms
used seem to be changing, with an off peak period 0930-1600, so I'm
presuming within the existing 'standard' period of 0700-1900 peak PAYG
fares will be charged between 0700-0900, and 1600-1900.

Might this also be part of the process of aligning Tube and NR charging
policies, with a view to next years NR PAYG rollout in the zones?

Paul S


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Old September 4th 08, 06:04 PM posted to uk.transport.london
MIG MIG is offline
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Default New Year fare rises

On Sep 4, 12:08*pm, martin wrote:
On Sep 4, 11:36*am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7597062.stm


Bus and Underground fares in London are to increase by an overall figure of
6% from the New Year, London Mayor Boris Johnson has announced.
Some fares will be cut, including a new off-peak rate aimed at encouraging
people to travel after 0930.


The press release athttp://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_release.jsp?releaseid=18677
has some detail of the new fares, in an incredibly badly formatted
table.

It mentions a new 0930-1600 off-peak period. I'm guessing that off-
peak picks up again after 1900, but there's no mention of this.

Another question is whether your off-peak day Travelcard will be valid
after 1600 - or will there be two markedly different off-peak periods,
depending on how you're paying?

While I'd imagine tourists arriving at Heathrow in the middle of the
day will be happy about being able to save 1.60, I suspect everyone
else will be totally baffled.


It also doesn't say if it's the start time of the journey or the end
time of the journey or both that determine the fare charged.
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Old September 4th 08, 06:52 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default New Year fare rises

MIG wrote:
On Sep 4, 12:08 pm, martin wrote:


It mentions a new 0930-1600 off-peak period. I'm guessing that off-
peak picks up again after 1900, but there's no mention of this.

Another question is whether your off-peak day Travelcard will be
valid after 1600 - or will there be two markedly different off-peak
periods, depending on how you're paying?


Depends if 'off peak' paper travelcards are affected at all doesn't it? I
suspect this is a PAYG feature only, otherwise there would have to be an
'off peak minimum cash fare' but they say it is frozen at 4.00 - though
you'd have to say the press release isn't explicit enough...

While I'd imagine tourists arriving at Heathrow in the middle of the
day will be happy about being able to save 1.60, I suspect everyone
else will be totally baffled.


This is what PAYG does already - does it baffle people now that higher fares
are charged between 0700 and 1900?

It also doesn't say if it's the start time of the journey or the end
time of the journey or both that determine the fare charged.


I'm sure it's been established before that on PAYG it is the start time that
defines the fare charged.

Paul S






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Old September 4th 08, 07:17 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default New Year fare rises

On Sep 4, 7:52*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
MIG wrote:
On Sep 4, 12:08 pm, martin wrote:
It mentions a new 0930-1600 off-peak period. I'm guessing that off-
peak picks up again after 1900, but there's no mention of this.


Another question is whether your off-peak day Travelcard will be
valid after 1600 - or will there be two markedly different off-peak
periods, depending on how you're paying?


Depends if 'off peak' paper travelcards are affected at all doesn't it? I
suspect this is a PAYG feature only, otherwise there would have to be an
'off peak minimum cash fare' but they say it is frozen at 4.00 - though
you'd have to say the press release isn't explicit enough...

While I'd imagine tourists arriving at Heathrow in the middle of the
day will be happy about being able to save 1.60, I suspect everyone
else will be totally baffled.


This is what PAYG does already - does it baffle people now that higher fares
are charged between 0700 and 1900?

It also doesn't say if it's the start time of the journey or the end
time of the journey or both that determine the fare charged.


I'm sure it's been established before that on PAYG it is the start time that
defines the fare charged.


That's what I'd put my money on, but it doesn't say. For readers of
the press release not familiar with forums like this, it ought to.
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Old September 5th 08, 07:25 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default New Year fare rises

On 4 Sep, 20:17, MIG wrote:
On Sep 4, 7:52*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:





MIG wrote:
On Sep 4, 12:08 pm, martin wrote:
It mentions a new 0930-1600 off-peak period. I'm guessing that off-
peak picks up again after 1900, but there's no mention of this.


Another question is whether your off-peak day Travelcard will be
valid after 1600 - or will there be two markedly different off-peak
periods, depending on how you're paying?


Depends if 'off peak' paper travelcards are affected at all doesn't it? I
suspect this is a PAYG feature only, otherwise there would have to be an
'off peak minimum cash fare' but they say it is frozen at 4.00 - though
you'd have to say the press release isn't explicit enough...


While I'd imagine tourists arriving at Heathrow in the middle of the
day will be happy about being able to save 1.60, I suspect everyone
else will be totally baffled.


This is what PAYG does already - does it baffle people now that higher fares
are charged between 0700 and 1900?


It also doesn't say if it's the start time of the journey or the end
time of the journey or both that determine the fare charged.


I'm sure it's been established before that on PAYG it is the start time that
defines the fare charged.


That's what I'd put my money on, but it doesn't say. *For readers of
the press release not familiar with forums like this, it ought to.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Does an evening peak on the underground now suggest that in time TOCs
can apply a similar peak level of fares on national rail services
inside the zones in the afternoon. We could then see an afternoon
restriction on tubes and trains for off-peak travelcards. This would
then remove the anomalies of off-peak tickets being valid in the
evening peak to zone 6 stations but not beyond from Liverpool Street,
Kings Cross etc.

However, it doesn't simplify matters at all. If an afternoon peak
applied to the off-peak one day travelcard, it would also have to
apply to passengers travelling in from outside zone 6 (as people
arriving in London between 4pm and 7pm wouldn't be able to travel
beyond their terminal station). This would all but kill off any
chance of anyone having a evening out in London if they are not
already there.

Jonathan
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Old September 5th 08, 01:25 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default New Year fare rises


wrote in message
...
However, it doesn't simplify matters at all. If an afternoon peak
applied to the off-peak one day travelcard, it would also have to
apply to passengers travelling in from outside zone 6 (as people
arriving in London between 4pm and 7pm wouldn't be able to travel
beyond their terminal station). This would all but kill off any
chance of anyone having a evening out in London if they are not
already there.


I suspect existing paper travelcard conditions will remain largely
unchanged, unless individual operators take the FCC policy. I don't think
there is an equivalent (other than via PAYG capping) of the one day
travelcard on Oyster, so the issue won't arise there. Isn't there a
precedent for this with oyster peak charging on London Overground between
Euston and Watford? I know that for Clapham Junction to Watford there are
times when it's cheaper to buy a paper ticket from Southern (with a gold
card discount) than use PAYG.

D A Stocks


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Old September 7th 08, 05:57 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default New Year fare rises

On 4 Sep, 11:36, "Paul Scott" wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7597062.stm

Bus and Underground fares in London are to increase by an overall figure of
6% from the New Year, London Mayor Boris Johnson has announced.
Some fares will be cut, including a new off-peak rate aimed at encouraging
people to travel after 0930.



Which of course is excellent news, for both 9-5ers and (typically
lower paid) shift workers. Less congestion in the rush hour as people
are encouraged to travel later in the day, and a welcome reduction in
cost for the poorest, hardest working members of society already hit
unfairly be congestion charges, petrol tax, and other government led
charges aimed at the non city community. Thankfully we have Boris,
mayor for the average hard working joe on the street.
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Old September 8th 08, 08:55 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default New Year fare rises

Paul Weaver wrote:
On 4 Sep, 11:36, "Paul Scott" wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7597062.stm

Bus and Underground fares in London are to increase by an overall figure of
6% from the New Year, London Mayor Boris Johnson has announced.
Some fares will be cut, including a new off-peak rate aimed at encouraging
people to travel after 0930.



Which of course is excellent news, for both 9-5ers and (typically
lower paid) shift workers. Less congestion in the rush hour as people
are encouraged to travel later in the day, and a welcome reduction in
cost for the poorest, hardest working members of society already hit
unfairly be congestion charges, petrol tax, and other government led
charges aimed at the non city community. Thankfully we have Boris,
mayor for the average hard working joe on the street.


Why are poor people who travel into London to work by public transport
after 9:30am on weekdays hit by the congestion charge and fuel tax? Car
ownership is not a common badge of poverty in London.

Why, for that matter, are they suddenly expected to be able to turn up
at work considerably after 9:30am* (given that they have to touch in at
the start of their journey after that time) without their employer minding?


Why, for that matter, does scrapping public transport improvements like
the Cross River Tram (and previously the West London Tram, the wasted
funding for which is being partly blamed for the rise) which were
squarely aimed at providing better access to the poorer areas of the
capital mean Boris is 'mayor for the average hard working joe on the
street'?

*puzzled*

(it's not 6%, either, most rises are well over that - lazy journalists).

Tom


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