On Tue, 16 Sep 2008, MIG wrote:

On Sep 16, 1:41*am, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article ,

(Tom Anderson) wrote:
The problem is that
cash comes in doses of 10 or 20 pounds, as notes. You cannot get
money from a cash machine in any smaller quantity.

Er, I regularly get cash in £5 notes from a cash machine (in Cambridge).


There's one in Russell Square that gives fivers as well. It's been
suggested that it has something to do with proximity to students, but if
so it's not consistent.

Is that the Travelex one, near the post office? Could it be because it's a
funky non-bank machine?

tom

--
Any problem in computer science can be solved with another layer of
indirection. -- David Wheeler

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

Boltar wrote:

If you think I'm being unreasonable then go into a corner shop and see
the reaction you get if you try and buy a mars bar with a 50 quid note.

Isn't there an actual law that allows retailers the ability to refuse
payment if offered in too high a denomination?

I think it's more the case that there's no law that compels anyone to
accept any particular form of payment.

There is the idea of 'legal tender', but i understand that actually only
refers to settling debts in a court - and you don't get any change:

http://www.royalmint.gov.uk/Corporat...uidelines.aspx

tom

--
Any problem in computer science can be solved with another layer of
indirection. -- David Wheeler

MIG wrote
"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote:
Boltar wrote:

being unreasonable then go into a corner shop and see the reaction
you get if you try and buy a mars bar with a 50 quid note.

Isn't there an actual law that allows retailers the ability to
refuse
payment if offered in too high a denomination?

I thought it was the other way round, eg paying £150 in 2p coins.

That's is indeed the law

http://www.tclayton.demon.co.uk/dec.html
1 and 2 GBP coins are legal tender to any amount.
20p and 50p coins are legal tender up to a total value of 10 pounds. 5p
and 10p coins are legal tender up to a total value of 5 pounds. 1p and
2p coins are legal tender up to a total of 20 pence.

Mind you, legal tender is an odder concept than you might think. No one
has to accept pounds unless there is a pre-existing debt (so
restaurants but not ordinary stores) and no one is legally obliged to
give change.

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/bankn...egaltender.htm

Cotton, William (1786-1866) Title Everybody's Guide to Money Matters:
( http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1903 )
"No one, however, can be compelled to give change; that is to say, if
you owe a person £4 15s., you are bound in strict law to pay him that
exact sum."


--
Mike D

Tom Anderson wrote
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008, Simon wrote:

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 06:24:51 -0700 (PDT), Boltar
wrote:

On Sep 15, 10:18 am, Walter Briscoe
wrote:
On Sunday morning, about 08.00,I was on a 21 to Lewisham at
London
Bridge/Monument. A passenger boarded and tried to pay with a
twenty
pound note. The driver had no change and nor did other
passengers. The
passenger was made to get off the bus. I was horrified and
complained,
this morning, at 0845 300 7000. The stop is not "Pay before you
board".
It seems the operator should have issued a pay later chit.

company for this service? The shop is open even if it exists?
Perhaps
the bus company should give the drivers a reasonable float, after
all
they do trust them with cash.

There still has to be a backup scheme for when the float runs out. I
recall it was mentioned on this NG that ? BAA had to cause
representations to be made to the Chinese official travel agency
because they were giving their customers only £50 notes.

And debit card Cashback has made shops part of the UK money
transmission system. I got 10x£1 coins from Sainsburys prior to a visit
to a laundrette


I agree that passengers should try to have the correct money but
sometimes plans fail.

This is, to my mind, a major hole in the payment arrangements for the

buses, and i believe i've ranted about this before. The problem is
that

Perhaps the "pay later chit" should be required to be issued only if a
one day bus pass is bought so the customer can collect their change at
no further cost.

You're even stuffed if you have an oyster but no credit, because
there's
no way to add credit to an oyster card outside station opening times.
I've
been in a pickle trying to get home late at night on more than one
occasion due to this.

Auto top-up and top-up at a Oyster Ticket stop are also available
"outside station opening times"

--
Mike D

On Sep 16, 4:52*pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008, MIG wrote:
On Sep 16, 1:41*am, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article ,

(Tom Anderson) wrote:
The problem is that
cash comes in doses of 10 or 20 pounds, as notes. You cannot get
money from a cash machine in any smaller quantity.

Er, I regularly get cash in £5 notes from a cash machine (in Cambridge).

There's one in Russell Square that gives fivers as well. *It's been
suggested that it has something to do with proximity to students, but if
so it's not consistent.

Is that the Travelex one, near the post office? Could it be because it's a
funky non-bank machine?

No, it's the Barclays one on the Hotel Russell side that I'm thinking
of.

On Sep 16, 5:23*pm, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote







On Mon, 15 Sep 2008, Simon wrote:

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 06:24:51 -0700 (PDT), Boltar
wrote:

On Sep 15, 10:18 am, Walter Briscoe
wrote:
On Sunday morning, about 08.00,I was on a 21 to Lewisham at
London
Bridge/Monument. A passenger boarded and tried to pay with a
twenty
pound note. The driver had no change and nor did other
passengers. The
passenger was made to get off the bus. I was horrified and
complained,
this morning, at 0845 300 7000. The stop is not "Pay before you
board".
It seems the operator should have issued a pay later chit.
company for this service? *The shop is open even if it exists?
Perhaps
the bus company should give the drivers a reasonable float, after
all
they do trust them with cash.

There still has to be a backup scheme for when the float runs out. I
recall it was mentioned on this NG that ? BAA had to cause
representations to be made to the Chinese official travel agency
because they were giving their customers only £50 notes.

And debit card Cashback has made shops part of the UK money
transmission system. I got 10x£1 coins from Sainsburys prior to a visit
to a laundrette

I agree that passengers should try to have the correct money but
sometimes plans fail.

This is, to my mind, a major hole in the payment arrangements for the
buses, and i believe i've ranted about this before. The problem is

that

Perhaps the "pay later chit" should be required to be issued only if a
one day bus pass is bought so the customer can collect their change at
no further cost.



You're even stuffed if you have an oyster but no credit, because
there's
no way to add credit to an oyster card outside station opening times.
I've
been in a pickle trying to get home late at night on more than one
occasion due to this.

Auto top-up and top-up at a Oyster Ticket stop are also available
"outside station opening times"

Not very likely. I've never seen one. Not many night clubs are
Oyster Ticket Stops.

In message , at 16:09:06 on Tue,
16 Sep 2008, Martin Underwood remarked:
I very very rarely pay for anything by cash these days, so maintaining
a supply of change for parking etc is a major problem.

Or even a £1 coin for supermarket trollies. I've solved that one now by
having a Brazilian coin in the car that's almost exactly the same size
as a £1, so releases a shopping trolley. It's worth about 20p I think.
No fraud, because you get back the coin you put in.

Interesting how a device like "£1 deposits" completely changes the
shopping paradigm. It used to be the case that there was a "pool" of
spare trollies at the far end of the checkouts, so you could unload from
one onto the belt, while a companion loaded up another as the items were
checked out. Now they can't start the till running until you've unloaded
the whole lot and have an empty trolley to use (bar a small buffer zone
of a couple of bags-worth).

As a result I now rarely buy more that a 3/4 full trolley, as that's all
you can get on most belts.
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 02:18:07 -0700 (PDT), Boltar
wrote:

I'm not saying buses should never give change but expecting a driver
to have enough change for 20 quid is perhaps optimistic. besides
which , its bloody annoying for the other passengers waiting trying to
board if the driver has to root around for loads of shrapnel because
some wally wants to pay with a large denomination note.

It takes precisely one item of currency to change a 20 quid note over
and above a tenner, or precisely two over and above a fiver.

If you think
I'm being unreasonable then go into a corner shop and see the reaction
you get if you try and buy a mars bar with a 50 quid note.

But I would be surprised to find gbp20 not accepted. And a Mars bar
costs less than a third of the price of a London cash bus fare.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 02:20:39 -0700 (PDT), Boltar
wrote:

If someone has a high value note and no change (though to be honest
how many people knowing they're going to catch a bus later wouldn't
make sure they had some pound coins on them?) and the bus driver has
no change he should have the option to issue tickets for however many
journeys the note would pay for. The passenger can then either hand
over the whole note or get off and walk.

That would make sense. Or allow Oyster top-up on bus.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:19 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:

You just haven't looked at the right ones, though the one I know is a
Lloyds TSB machine.

They were put out there in association with the Bank of England due to
a shortage of fivers - but there aren't many of them. There weren't
even many when I was a kid and a fiver was worth at least what a
tenner is now.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.