In message
Matthew Dickinson wrote:

[snip]

The Solent council's report on smartcard opportunities is at

Solent council???????


http://www.portsmouth.gov.uk/media/S...ortunities.pdf

Pompey getting uppity again? Just 'cos they've got a premiership team they
think they own the Solent :-)


The main points a

lack of incentive for bus operators to invest


possibiliy of validity on ferries

That could be handy.


--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
In message

Matthew Dickinson wrote:

[snip]

The Solent council's report on smartcard opportunities is at

Solent council???????
http://www.portsmouth.gov.uk/media/S...ortunities.pdf

Pompey getting uppity again? Just 'cos they've got a premiership team
they
think they own the Solent :-)

The main points a

lack of incentive for bus operators to invest

possibiliy of validity on ferries

That could be handy.

Noticed today the reader/validators are fitted all the way down the Netley
line. As none of the stations have ticket barriers, and by my logic stand
alone 'readers' are not needed for season tickets, they must have some sort
of local scheme designed, otherwise why bother with all the hardware?

There are also foundations and conduit in at Southampton Central for stand
alone readers on the 'paid side' of the barriers. That points to use by pax
who've arrived at the station from elsewhere on normal tickets, by
comparison with say Wimbledon.

[Presume Solent council should have been 'Solent Transport'. No, I hadn't
heard of it either...]

Paul S

Rupert Candy wrote:


Surely it's a tentative (and arguably over-optimistic) step towards
what the Netherlands has - a national smart card which is valid for
local transport anywhere in the country,

Is it not more a case of "what the Netherlands might have one day, if
they can get it to work, if Connexxion brings its ball back, if they
(=the colonial imperialist aggressors) can install ticket gates or
similar everywhere they will be needed, and if students don't make their
own knock-offs"?



or (at least) in the South
East, but which won't make any real sense until lots of operators and
areas are supporting it. Even without 'PAYG' train ticketing, you
could still have some form of capping, whereby the (electronically
deducted) bus journeys at either end of a Cambridge city centre -
Southampton town centre journey were effectively 'refunded' when the
train ticket was added to the smartcard.


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 16 Dec, 18:24, "Paul Scott" wrote:

(snip)

Noticed today the reader/validators are fitted all the way down the Netley
line. As none of the stations have ticket barriers, and by my logic stand
alone 'readers' are not needed for season tickets, they must have some sort
of local scheme designed, otherwise why bother with all the hardware?

The plot thickens...


There are also foundations and conduit in at Southampton Central for stand
alone readers on the 'paid side' of the barriers. That points to use by pax
who've arrived at the station from elsewhere on normal tickets, by
comparison with say Wimbledon.

And Ealing Broadway, Stratford, Richmond, Barking, Harrow &
Wealdstone, Seven Sisters etc etc etc.

On 16 Dec, 18:26, Arthur Figgis wrote:

Rupert Candy wrote:
Surely it's a tentative (and arguably over-optimistic) step towards
what the Netherlands has - a national smart card which is valid for
local transport anywhere in the country,

Is it not more a case of "what the Netherlands might have one day, if
they can get it to work, if Connexxion brings its ball back, if they
(=the colonial imperialist aggressors) can install ticket gates or
similar everywhere they will be needed, and if students don't make their
own knock-offs"?


I've similarly heard rumblings about the trouble that's being
experienced.

I have absolutely no idea how the Dutch system works, as I haven't
been there for a while - is there a 'touch-in/ touch-out' pay-as-you-
go system? If so what happens about unresolved journeys? And is it
also based on the MiFare Classic technology?

In message
"Paul Scott" wrote:


"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
In message

Matthew Dickinson wrote:

[snip]

The Solent council's report on smartcard opportunities is at

Solent council???????
http://www.portsmouth.gov.uk/media/S...ortunities.pdf

Pompey getting uppity again? Just 'cos they've got a premiership team
they think they own the Solent :-)

The main points a

lack of incentive for bus operators to invest

possibiliy of validity on ferries

That could be handy.

Noticed today the reader/validators are fitted all the way down the Netley
line.

That's recent, they weren't there in September.

As none of the stations have ticket barriers, and by my logic stand alone
'readers' are not needed for season tickets, they must have some sort of
local scheme designed, otherwise why bother with all the hardware?

Some of the stations have only just got conventional ticket machines (which
weren't working when I tried to use them).


There are also foundations and conduit in at Southampton Central for stand
alone readers on the 'paid side' of the barriers. That points to use by pax
who've arrived at the station from elsewhere on normal tickets, by
comparison with say Wimbledon.

There appears to be some major refurbishment work going on on the upside of
Southampton Central.


[Presume Solent council should have been 'Solent Transport'. No, I hadn't
heard of it either...]


Hope its nothing to do with Solent 'University' (sic)

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

On Dec 16, 6:26*pm, Arthur Figgis wrote:
Rupert Candy wrote:
Surely it's a tentative (and arguably over-optimistic) step towards
what the Netherlands has - a national smart card which is valid for
local transport anywhere in the country,

Is it not more a case of "what the Netherlands might have one day, if
they can get it to work, if Connexxion brings its ball back, if they
(=the colonial imperialist aggressors) can install ticket gates or
similar everywhere they will be needed, and if students don't make their
own knock-offs"?

Yes, I was perhaps being a little over-optimistic in my view of the
Netherlands (though the OV-chipkaart is now working on all modes in
Amsterdam, much like the Oyster and in a far more useful way than
Paris's Mobilis - i.e. including a stored fare element). Have any
other cities in .nl moved beyond limited trials yet? For a long while
you could only use it on the metro in Amsterdam.

It's interesting that the Nationale Strippenkaart has been such a
success both because of, and in spite of, its very low-tech nature.
Enforcement is harder than with a barriered system, and it must be
very inconvenient being a commuter with the foot-long version, but any
shop anywhere in the country can sell them without needing any
equipment, and the only special equipment needed at the point of use
is a humble date stamp. Perhaps we're trying to run before we can walk
by jumping straight into a national smartcard before there's any
uniformity or integration *whatsoever* between public transport in
different areas of the country.

Thoughtful of Shortlands

On Dec 16, 6:54*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 16 Dec, 18:26, Arthur Figgis wrote:

Rupert Candy wrote:
Surely it's a tentative (and arguably over-optimistic) step towards
what the Netherlands has - a national smart card which is valid for
local transport anywhere in the country,

Is it not more a case of "what the Netherlands might have one day, if
they can get it to work, if Connexxion brings its ball back, if they
(=the colonial imperialist aggressors) can install ticket gates or
similar everywhere they will be needed, and if students don't make their
own knock-offs"?

I've similarly heard rumblings about the trouble that's being
experienced.

I have absolutely no idea how the Dutch system works, as I haven't
been there for a while - is there a 'touch-in/ touch-out' pay-as-you-
go system? If so what happens about unresolved journeys? And is it
also based on the MiFare Classic technology?

I know very little about the technicalities, but like Oyster, the
cards can hold both season tickets and stored value, and there is a
'touch in and touch out' regime on all modes of transport (including
bus and tram - validators on either side of each set of doors).
Interestingly, if you don't want to store long-term season tickets,
you can opt for an 'anonymous' version of the card which just holds
stored value and is completely transferable - I suppose the equivalent
of an unregistered Oyster, but presented as an explicit choice.

One thing that threw me back in October (when the Metro-only trial was
still running) was the lack of signs on the card vending machines at
stations. The only way I discovered my mistake was when I tried to
touch in on a tram. I got a green light, but the 'guard' in the little
booth wasn't having any of it...

http://www.ov-chipkaart.nl/hoe/ has lots of information if anyone's
interested (English version available, natuurlijk)

Rupert Candy wrote:
On Dec 16, 6:26 pm, Arthur Figgis wrote:
Rupert Candy wrote:
Surely it's a tentative (and arguably over-optimistic) step towards
what the Netherlands has - a national smart card which is valid for
local transport anywhere in the country,
Is it not more a case of "what the Netherlands might have one day, if
they can get it to work, if Connexxion brings its ball back, if they
(=the colonial imperialist aggressors) can install ticket gates or
similar everywhere they will be needed, and if students don't make their
own knock-offs"?

Yes, I was perhaps being a little over-optimistic in my view of the
Netherlands (though the OV-chipkaart is now working on all modes in
Amsterdam, much like the Oyster and in a far more useful way than
Paris's Mobilis - i.e. including a stored fare element). Have any
other cities in .nl moved beyond limited trials yet? For a long while
you could only use it on the metro in Amsterdam.

AIUI there is some validity in Rotterdam, but it's ages since I've been
to .nl, and I've never been further than the station forecourt in Rotterdam.

It's interesting that the Nationale Strippenkaart has been such a
success both because of, and in spite of, its very low-tech nature.

Who needs a bit paper when you can have computers, smart cards,
databases .... :-)

Enforcement is harder than with a barriered system, and it must be
very inconvenient being a commuter with the foot-long version, but any
shop anywhere in the country can sell them without needing any
equipment, and the only special equipment needed at the point of use
is a humble date stamp. Perhaps we're trying to run before we can walk
by jumping straight into a national smartcard before there's any
uniformity or integration *whatsoever* between public transport in
different areas of the country.

Thoughtful of Shortlands

We got griped with the wrong pattern of boxes on a tram en route to
Scheveningen. He was mainly amused at our inability to pronounce it - a
known issue for non-Dutch speakers, but we'll get our revenge when he
needs to go to Loogboroog.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

In message
Arthur Figgis wrote:

[snip]

We got griped with the wrong pattern of boxes on a tram en route to
Scheveningen. He was mainly amused at our inability to pronounce it - a
known issue for non-Dutch speakers, but we'll get our revenge when he
needs to go to Loogboroog.


Apparently the Dutch resistance used the name as a password because even a
German who was fluent in Dutch couldn't pronounce it properly.

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html