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Old October 9th 03, 10:12 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Jubilee line screwup

Boltar wrote:
"Robin Mayes" wrote in message
...

Plus it would have been nice if LU had listened to what people
were saying about using Charing X as a backup terminus instead
of just closing the jubilee platforms and walling up the
escalators for no good reason.


Money?


How much money would it have cost to kept the station mothballed?
A bit of maintenance now and then and some cleaning? Not a lot.
Instead they decided to spend loads of cash walling up the
escalators and ripping all the fittings down (or so I've been told,
obviously I haven't seen it myself though I have seen the wall).
And its not like it was another Ongar , it was a connection to a
major london railway terminus.


So rather than use Charing X as a reversing siding (which is what happens
now), you want passengers to be diverted to a station which is not
(normally) on their line, with all the confusion that that would cause,
extra staff required, etc. etc. All for the sake of a few passengers who
would like to get off at Charing X even though they boarded a train that
shouldn't have gone there. Oh, and they could have changed at Baker Street
and caught a Bakerloo train to Charing X anyway.

Case dismissed.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)


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Old October 9th 03, 10:44 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Jubilee line screwup

"Boltar" wrote in message
om...
"Robin Mayes" wrote in message

...
Tell us what you mean by "just a signal gone wrong" and perhaps you'll

be
told more...


That was the official LU excu^H^H reason. Given that I'm not clairvoyant
I can't tell you anymore.


LUL are not brilliant at giving out lots of information..


Plus it would have been nice if LU had listened to what people were

saying
about using Charing X as a backup terminus instead of just closing the
jubilee platforms and walling up the escalators for no good reason.


Money?


How much money would it have cost to kept the station mothballed? A bit of
maintenance now and then and some cleaning? Not a lot. Instead they

decided
to spend loads of cash walling up the escalators and ripping all the

fittings
down (or so I've been told, obviously I haven't seen it myself though I

have
seen the wall). And its not like it was another Ongar , it was a

connection to
a major london railway terminus.


The station itself is closed, but trains still run into CharingX, they use
it as a Turn around. Most of the station is still intact inside, its just
all blocked up for safety reasons


Still , if the powers that be there had brains they wouldn't have been

working
for LU in the first place I guess...


Oh change the record, please! Perhaps the people who had brains were

working
for that wonderful private company Westinghouse Signals, or then again,
obviously not!


What have westinghouse got to do with whether LU closed Charing X? Do try
and keep up.


Westinghouse Rail systems have nothing to do with it, they just provide the
Signalling system


B2003



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Old October 9th 03, 10:45 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Jubilee line screwup

"Richard J." wrote in message
...
Boltar wrote:
"Robin Mayes" wrote in message
...

Plus it would have been nice if LU had listened to what people
were saying about using Charing X as a backup terminus instead
of just closing the jubilee platforms and walling up the
escalators for no good reason.

Money?


How much money would it have cost to kept the station mothballed?
A bit of maintenance now and then and some cleaning? Not a lot.
Instead they decided to spend loads of cash walling up the
escalators and ripping all the fittings down (or so I've been told,
obviously I haven't seen it myself though I have seen the wall).
And its not like it was another Ongar , it was a connection to a
major london railway terminus.


So rather than use Charing X as a reversing siding (which is what happens
now), you want passengers to be diverted to a station which is not
(normally) on their line, with all the confusion that that would cause,
extra staff required, etc. etc. All for the sake of a few passengers who
would like to get off at Charing X even though they boarded a train that
shouldn't have gone there. Oh, and they could have changed at Baker

Street
and caught a Bakerloo train to Charing X anyway.

Case dismissed.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)


Well put


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Old October 9th 03, 11:22 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Jubilee line screwup


"Darren Wiltshire" wrote in message
. ..
No, the Jubilee Line does not use Full ATO, all Trains are driven by
Drivers. The JL does thogh use ATP, which will be affected by a signal
Failer.
Should a signal Fail to a restrictive Aspect (Red/Off) the trainstops will
rise, and prohibit the movements of trains past them.
The Safe working of the signaling system is designed to bring things to a
safe situation in the event of a failere of any kind, most of which can be
fixed fairly quickly.

As signal failer omn its own in unlikely to be the cause of a services
suspension, but i certainetly havent seen any reports of anythig majr with
the signalling/safety systems
It is more likely that there are other factore included (LUL dont close
lines likely.. its bloody awfull trying to get trackside to do anything!!)
It all depends on what definition of "Signal failer" you use:
-- Was it a Sole Signal failer, or multiple
-- Was it a Track Circuit Failer which resulted in a signal showing a Red
-- Was it a signaliing system Comms Error
-- Was it an Error on the Signal Control Center
or any other of a wide range.

Any chance of that again but in English?
--
Cheers, Steve.
If The Good Lord had meant for us to be fiscally prudent, He would not have
given us the platinum credit card...
Change colour to PC Plod's lights to reply.


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Old October 10th 03, 12:13 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Jubilee line screwup


"Boltar" wrote in message
om...

Tell us what you mean by "just a signal gone wrong" and perhaps you'll

be
told more...


That was the official LU excu^H^H reason. Given that I'm not clairvoyant
I can't tell you anymore.


As Darren has replied giving some of the various reasons signals fail that
should be sufficent.

Still , if the powers that be there had brains they wouldn't have been

working
for LU in the first place I guess...


Oh change the record, please! Perhaps the people who had brains were

working
for that wonderful private company Westinghouse Signals, or then again,
obviously not!


What have westinghouse got to do with whether LU closed Charing X? Do try
and keep up.


Absolutely nothing! You made the comment about people within LUL having no
brains, as the problems with the signalling system, which were installed by
Westinghouse Signals are known about and are easily found using Google I
thought I'd just remind you that not everything that goes wrong is down to
LUL staff having 'no brains'.

I'm up, are you?




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Old October 10th 03, 12:16 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Jubilee line screwup


"Darren Wiltshire" wrote in message
. ..
Thanks.. i work for Westinghouse Rail system


We all have our crosses to bear ;-)

P.S. Jubilee Line suspended between Green Park (Charing Cross (disused)
Jubilee Line platforms being used to reverse empty trains) and Waterloo so
engineers can investigate the failure more fully (change lots more rail
chairs / block joints / etc).



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Old October 10th 03, 09:15 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Jubilee line screwup

"Robin Mayes" wrote in message ...
What have westinghouse got to do with whether LU closed Charing X? Do try
and keep up.


Absolutely nothing! You made the comment about people within LUL having no
brains, as the problems with the signalling system, which were installed by
Westinghouse Signals are known about and are easily found using Google I
thought I'd just remind you that not everything that goes wrong is down to
LUL staff having 'no brains'.

I'm up, are you?


Well apparently you're not since you can't even follow the flow of a simple
post. In my post the 2nd paragraph was about Charing X being closed , not about
the signalling. I suggest you re-read it.

B2003
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Old October 10th 03, 09:25 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Jubilee line screwup

"Richard J." wrote in message ...
So rather than use Charing X as a reversing siding (which is what happens
now), you want passengers to be diverted to a station which is not
(normally) on their line, with all the confusion that that would cause,
extra staff required, etc. etc. All for the sake of a few passengers who
would like to get off at Charing X even though they boarded a train that
shouldn't have gone there. Oh, and they could have changed at Baker Street
and caught a Bakerloo train to Charing X anyway.

Case dismissed.


Are you for real?

A) It would have cost nothing to have kept Charing X on the line map as a
dotted special events connection so avoiding any confusion if trains had to go
there.

B) Extra staff? You mean extra 1 person to hang around on the platform making
pointless mind-the-doors messages? I'm sure they could find him/her from
the complement of staff already at the station.

C) A few passengers who get off a charing X? What about the 1000s who go to
westminster who instead of just going charing X-westminster on the district
had to go via the victoria line to victoria from green park then the district?
Sure , its only an extra 10 minutes , but then if you take that attitude why
not strip out half the tube lines in central london?

Is the tube there for the convenience of passengers or is it just a giant train
set for LU to run as easily as possible? Have a long think about that because
following your logic the entire circle line (along with a lot of the H&C) could
be closed as you can reach all the stations via other lines. And I won't even
mention the parallel running on met/jubilee/chiltern , district/piccadilly
lines.

B2003
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Old October 10th 03, 10:59 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Jubilee line screwup

Boltar wrote:
"Richard J." wrote in message
...
So rather than use Charing X as a reversing siding (which is what
happens now), you want passengers to be diverted to a station
which is not (normally) on their line, with all the confusion that
that would cause, extra staff required, etc. etc. All for the
sake of a few passengers who would like to get off at Charing X
even though they boarded a train that shouldn't have gone there.
Oh, and they could have changed at Baker Street and caught a
Bakerloo train to Charing X anyway.

Case dismissed.


Are you for real?

A) It would have cost nothing to have kept Charing X on the line map
as a dotted special events connection so avoiding any confusion if
trains had to go there.


But creating massive confusion to thousands of tourists who won't
necessarily read the small print about "special events".

B) Extra staff? You mean extra 1 person to hang around on the
platform making pointless mind-the-doors messages? I'm sure they
could find him/her from the complement of staff already at the
station.

C) A few passengers who get off a charing X? What about the 1000s who
go to westminster who instead of just going charing X-westminster on
the district had to go via the victoria line to victoria from green
park then the district?


The District doesn't serve Charing Cross. Why would thousands of people
choose to change at Westminster to the District and have a long walk up
Villiers Street from Embankment, when they could have changed at Baker
Street to the Bakerloo, or other alternatives from Bond Street or Green Park
if starting there. Again, you are arguing on behalf of people who got on
the wrong line anyway!

Is the tube there for the convenience of passengers or is it just a
giant train set for LU to run as easily as possible? Have a long
think about that because following your logic the entire circle line
(along with a lot of the H&C) could be closed as you can reach all
the stations via other lines. And I won't even mention the parallel
running on met/jubilee/chiltern , district/piccadilly lines.


Following logic isn't a strength of yours, is it?
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

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Old October 10th 03, 01:14 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Jubilee line screwup

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Dulieu"
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 11:22 PM
Subject: Jubilee line screwup



"Darren Wiltshire" wrote in message
. ..
No, the Jubilee Line does not use Full ATO, all Trains are driven by
Drivers. The JL does thogh use ATP, which will be affected by a signal
Failer.

Tha should be easy to understand
Should a signal Fail to a restrictive Aspect (Red/Off) the trainstops

will
rise, and prohibit the movements of trains past them.

LUL Trains have Air brakes, which are Held in the Off possition using Air i
belive. on the Front right of the train, it a 'switch' for want of better
words, which is tripped by a bar raised from the floor.
This bar is only up if the signal is displaying a red (Not lit is assumed
red)
The Safe working of the signaling system is designed to bring things to

a
safe situation in the event of a failere of any kind, most of which can

be
fixed fairly quickly.

If the sigal failed, then the trainstop would rise, and any train passing
the signal would have its emergany brakes applied automaticaly.

As signal failer omn its own in unlikely to be the cause of a services
suspension, but i certainetly havent seen any reports of anythig major

with
the signalling/safety systems
It is more likely that there are other factore included (LUL dont close
lines likely.. its bloody awfull trying to get trackside to do

anything!!)
It all depends on what definition of "Signal failer" you use:
-- Was it a Sole Signal failer, or multiple
-- Was it a Track Circuit Failer which resulted in a signal showing a

Red
-- Was it a signaliing system Comms Error
-- Was it an Error on the Signal Control Center
or any other of a wide range.

Any chance of that again but in English?
--
Cheers, Steve.
If The Good Lord had meant for us to be fiscally prudent, He would not

have
given us the platinum credit card...
Change colour to PC Plod's lights to reply.



Any better?
If not.. email me and i'll explain fully....

Darren Wiltshire






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