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Old September 29th 09, 05:37 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default W&C timetable oddities


If you download the Bank to Waterloo timetable from the TFL site, it has odd
footnotes which serve no obvious purpose.... does anyone know how this quirk
got into the system?




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Old September 29th 09, 07:43 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default W&C timetable oddities

"Basil Jet" wrote

If you download the Bank to Waterloo timetable from the TFL site, it has
odd footnotes which serve no obvious purpose.... does anyone know how this
quirk got into the system?


I assume you mean this one:
http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/use...__00004f19.pdf
(I wish you'd posted the link: it's not easy to find!)
I don't know the answer. I agree with you that it's daft!

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Old September 29th 09, 08:04 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default W&C timetable oddities


"John Salmon" wrote in message
...
"Basil Jet" wrote

If you download the Bank to Waterloo timetable from the TFL site, it has
odd footnotes which serve no obvious purpose.... does anyone know how
this quirk got into the system?


I assume you mean this one:
http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/use...__00004f19.pdf


page cannot be found

(I assume that this was personal timetable that you created?)

tim



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Old September 29th 09, 08:36 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default W&C timetable oddities

Basil Jet wrote on 29 September
2009 18:37:35 ...
If you download the Bank to Waterloo timetable from the TFL site, it has odd
footnotes which serve no obvious purpose.... does anyone know how this quirk
got into the system?


Thanks for the lack of a link! Select Getting Around / Timetables /
Tube and bus, scroll down to "Tube timetable - Tube line", select W&C,
select "Towards Bank", select from the list of stations "Waterloo" [1],
click on "View Waterloo Underground Station timetable" (what else do
they think I want to do?), and hey presto, a PDF timetable appears.
Well, a timetable for first and last trains and "about every X to Y
minutes" for the rest of the day. The footnotes apply to the first and
last trains, thus (for Waterloo to Bank):

a=only Wednesday and Friday, b=not on Wednesday and Friday, c=not on
Monday and Wednesday, d=only Monday and Wednesday

Then you realise that there are pairs of trains departing at the same
time, one with 'a' and the other with 'b', or with 'c' and 'd'.

My theory is that there is a half-minute difference in departure time in
the working timetable on certain days which leads to different entries,
but the times in the public timetable are rounded to whole minutes.
That theory would explain why on the Bank departures timetable, one pair
of early morning departures is listed in b-a order instead of a-b. But
I can't quite see how the theory fits the THREE departures from Bank at
21:48:

21:48 e "only Monday"
21:48 f "only Wednesday"
21:48 d "not on Monday or Wednesday"

And then of course, there's the question of why the timetable is
different at all on particular days.


[1] If you select "Bank", presumably wanting to see arrival times, you
get a PDF file consisting of one blank page, similarly for Waterloo
arrival times.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)
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Old September 29th 09, 09:59 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default W&C timetable oddities

"tim....." wrote
"John Salmon" wrote
"Basil Jet" wrote

If you download the Bank to Waterloo timetable from the TFL site, it has
odd footnotes which serve no obvious purpose.... does anyone know how
this quirk got into the system?


I assume you mean this one:
http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/use...__00004f19.pdf


page cannot be found

(I assume that this was personal timetable that you created?)


No, I don't think so. In fact I've just closed my browser, clicked on the
link again and it has come up again (using Firefox). If you still can't get
it to work, see Richard J's post in a separate sub-thread which shows how to
find it. It's unfortunate that the OP didn't post the link in the first
place!



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Old September 30th 09, 12:22 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default W&C timetable oddities

Richard J. wrote:
Basil Jet wrote on 29
September 2009 18:37:35 ...
If you download the Bank to Waterloo timetable from the TFL site, it
has odd footnotes which serve no obvious purpose.... does anyone
know how this quirk got into the system?


Thanks for the lack of a link!


I didn't post a link because I knew the link would only work for me.

Select Getting Around / Timetables /
Tube and bus, scroll down to "Tube timetable - Tube line", select W&C,
select "Towards Bank", select from the list of stations "Waterloo"
[1], click on "View Waterloo Underground Station timetable" (what
else do they think I want to do?), and hey presto, a PDF timetable
appears. Well, a timetable for first and last trains and "about every
X to Y minutes" for the rest of the day. The footnotes apply to the
first and last trains, thus (for Waterloo to Bank):

a=only Wednesday and Friday, b=not on Wednesday and Friday, c=not on
Monday and Wednesday, d=only Monday and Wednesday

Then you realise that there are pairs of trains departing at the same
time, one with 'a' and the other with 'b', or with 'c' and 'd'.

My theory is that there is a half-minute difference in departure time
in the working timetable on certain days which leads to different
entries, but the times in the public timetable are rounded to whole
minutes. That theory would explain why on the Bank departures
timetable, one pair of early morning departures is listed in b-a
order instead of a-b. But I can't quite see how the theory fits the
THREE departures from Bank at 21:48:

21:48 e "only Monday"
21:48 f "only Wednesday"
21:48 d "not on Monday or Wednesday"


Nice theory... IIRC the W&C is the only line which uses quarter minute times
instead of half minute times.

And then of course, there's the question of why the timetable is
different at all on particular days.



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Old September 30th 09, 12:44 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default W&C timetable oddities

Basil Jet wrote:
Richard J. wrote:

My theory is that there is a half-minute difference in departure time
in the working timetable on certain days which leads to different
entries, but the times in the public timetable are rounded to whole
minutes. That theory would explain why on the Bank departures
timetable, one pair of early morning departures is listed in b-a
order instead of a-b. But I can't quite see how the theory fits the
THREE departures from Bank at 21:48:

21:48 e "only Monday"
21:48 f "only Wednesday"
21:48 d "not on Monday or Wednesday"


Nice theory... IIRC the W&C is the only line which uses quarter
minute times instead of half minute times.


Quarter minute times? You are joking me?!!

The train departing at 21:48.15sec only leaves on Monday, whereas on
Wednesday the train goes at 21:48.30!!! It's so crazy it has to be true.

--
Stevo


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Old September 30th 09, 09:57 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default W&C timetable oddities

Stephen O'Connell wrote:
Quarter minute times? You are joking me?!!


Nope. The journey time on the W&C is so short that regulating to the
quarter minute is about the only sane way of keeping the service going,
it seems.

Cheers,

Barry
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Old September 30th 09, 04:20 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default W&C timetable oddities

Barry Salter wrote on 30 September 2009
10:57:23 ...
Stephen O'Connell wrote:
Quarter minute times? You are joking me?!!


Nope. The journey time on the W&C is so short that regulating to the
quarter minute is about the only sane way of keeping the service going,
it seems.


The joke here is the absurdly casual approach to timekeeping that LU has
on the other lines. As far as I can see, drivers get no help at all to
keep to time apart from being issued with a working timetable (at a
resolution of ½ minute) and using their watch. OK, they get regulated
at certain stations, but that's *after* things have gone adrift. In
Paris, the timings are to the nearest 5 seconds, with a headwall display
at each station or a beep in the cab DLR-fashion to say it's time to go.

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)
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Old September 30th 09, 04:44 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default W&C timetable oddities

On 30 Sep, 17:20, "Richard J." wrote:
Barry Salter wrote on 30 September 2009
10:57:23 ...

Stephen O'Connell wrote:
Quarter minute times? You are joking me?!!


Nope. The journey time on the W&C is so short that regulating to the
quarter minute is about the only sane way of keeping the service going,
it seems.


The joke here is the absurdly casual approach to timekeeping that LU has
on the other lines. *As far as I can see, drivers get no help at all to
keep to time apart from being issued with a working timetable (at a
resolution of ½ minute) and using their watch. *OK, they get regulated
at certain stations, but that's *after* things have gone adrift. *In
Paris, the timings are to the nearest 5 seconds, with a headwall display
at each station or a beep in the cab DLR-fashion to say it's time to go.

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)


It's hard to see why the W & C needs a timetable at all. How far from
the schedule can a driver or train end up? I mean, a train six hours
late is still at a maximum of four minutes from where it ought to be.
As long as they are signalled out of each station at an appropriate
interval, what difference can it make?


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