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Old October 12th 09, 07:03 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,uk.local.london
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Default Cops caught in free first class rail rap.

On 12 Oct, 07:19, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 07:13:21 on Mon, 12 Oct
2009, Miles Bader remarked:

Most off-duty police officers will intervene if something "kicks off"
in their vicinity.


... which is far less likely to occur in first class, would you not
agree? How very convenient for them.


Still, something probably happens occasionally. *What they could do is
have a small number of "first class upgrades" available to police
officers and have a lottery to make them available to those officers who
wish to use the service.


Given that these are police commuting to their jobs mainly in Central
London from the suburbs, are there really that many services with FC?
--
Roland Perry


To address Polsons point about "police freebies" the idea originated
from the railway industry back in BR days following a similar
initiative by LT on buses and tube. All London and bordering forces
were offered the facility and it was advertised both in papers and
Police Review. I had the chance to use the BR facility, for reasns
that will become apparant, but on occasion did use the LT facility.
During the late 1980s I was on a day out from Reading in London and
displayed my warrant card at the barrier for Euston Square and as I
did so the staff member pointed along the corridor saying "Your mates
need help along there.' I was then involved in a violent incident
where staff and BTP officers were attacked. The details are not
important but I ended up arresting one of several assailants who had
caused serious facial injuries to a member of staff and then attacked
two uniformed officers. A few days later I get a call to attend the
Reading Chief Superintendents Office (a good old fashioned hard nosed
copper called John Webb, liked by most, but feared by all). He'd
received a letter of thanks from the senior officer covering the
station where the BTP officers were based. I was asked to relate my
side and he was all smiles. Then the question, 'How did the staff know
who you were?" 'I showed my warrant card at the barrier.' Mr Webb
then exploded with rage, a sight which at close quarters is something
that sends the sphincter twitching. Unknown to me, when a few years
earlier the free travel facility was offered to the above mentioned
police forces, Colin Smith, the then Chief Constable, had told all
officers that Thames Valley Police Officers would not be allowed to
take advantage of the scheme. No one had told me, in fact no one on my
shift of 30 officers was aware. So I had a brief well done, followed
by a monster bollocking.

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Old October 12th 09, 07:09 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.local.london,uk.railway
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Default Cops caught in free first class rail rap.

On 12 Oct, 18:03, "Recliner" wrote:
"Willms" wrote in message



Am Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:12:07 UTC, *schrieb "Recliner"
*auf uk.railway :


From my experience, the "in uniform" part is not adhered to at all
and never has been.


In fact, surely off-duty cops don't wear uniform?


*On the way between home and their station they might be in uniform,
right?


No, they change in the police station. They may be wearing part of the
police uniform, but would have a civilian jacket on top so that people
don't realise they are police. It certainly also used to be the case
that British soldiers were never seen in uniform off duty (thanks to the
IRA), but that rule may have been relaxed recently.


Correct
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Old October 12th 09, 07:47 PM posted to uk.local.london,uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Cops caught in free first class rail rap.

In message
, at
21:34:11 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Willms remarked:
It is in the byelaws of most
regional transit authorities (Verkehrsverbünde) that cops in uniform
travel for free. I see that quite often, becaus Frankfurt's cop
headquarter is on the U-Bahn line which I use to go to the city
center.


When off-duty, but still in uniform, do they continue to carry firearms?
--
Roland Perry
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Old October 12th 09, 08:11 PM posted to uk.local.london,uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Cops caught in free first class rail rap.

On 12/10/2009 at 20:34:11 Willms (%mail)wrote: in

uk.railway

Am Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:03:59 UTC, schrieb "Recliner"
auf uk.railway :

In fact, surely off-duty cops don't wear uniform?

On the way between home and their station they might be in
uniform, right?


No, they change in the police station.


Aha, that is different over here. It is in the byelaws of most
regional transit authorities (Verkehrsverbünde) that cops in uniform
travel for free. I see that quite often, becaus Frankfurt's cop
headquarter is on the U-Bahn line which I use to go to the city
center.


Many years ago, back to the 1950s and earlier, on-duty police in
uniform had a "duty armlet", a black and white band, worn on the left
sleeve near the jacket cuff.

--
Richard Hunt

Now available! The Amazing Dr. Strousberg, The European Railway King
For more information and orders go to http://www.calcaria.co.uk/ or
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperbac...strousberg/743
1788
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Old October 12th 09, 09:04 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,uk.local.london
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Default Cops caught in free first class rail rap.

wrote:

Unknown to me, when a few years earlier the free travel facility was
offered to the above mentioned police forces, Colin Smith, the then
Chief Constable, had told all officers that Thames Valley Police
Officers would not be allowed to take advantage of the scheme.


Was it just an edict, or was there an explanation to go with it?


--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p15036443.html
(Original "Great Western" nameplate on 47 500, 1979)


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Old October 12th 09, 11:07 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,uk.local.london
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Default Cops caught in free first class rail rap.

On 12 Oct, 22:04, Chris Tolley (ukonline
really) wrote:
wrote:
Unknown to me, when a few years earlier the free travel facility was
offered to the above mentioned police forces, Colin Smith, the then
Chief Constable, had told all officers that Thames Valley Police
Officers would not be allowed to take advantage of the scheme.


Was it just an edict, or was there an explanation to go with it?

--http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p15036443.html
(Original "Great Western" nameplate on 47 500, 1979)


The CC, Colin Smith, decided TVP Officers were paid enough to pay
their own fares, which rather missed the point given that TVP Officers
were, and still are paid far less than officers working within the
Greater London Area. The idea was to encourage police officers onto
public transport, not offer an illegal inducement. He was well known
for his puritanical views and we all noticed many backward steps in
equipment and methods following the years of progress under Sir Peter
Imbert.
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Old October 12th 09, 11:13 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,uk.local.london
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Default Cops caught in free first class rail rap.

In message , Bill Borland
wrote:
I haven't looked closely at a copper recently, but it *used* to be
the case that an essential part of the uniform was a black-and-white
chequered band round the cuff, and merely removing *that* meant that
the officer was no longer "in uniform". But that was a long time ago
and things may have changed.


That was abolished no later than about 1965.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Mobile: +44 7973 377646 | Web: http://www.davros.org
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:
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Old October 13th 09, 08:11 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,uk.local.london
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Default Cops caught in free first class rail rap.


"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...
In message , Bill Borland
wrote:
I haven't looked closely at a copper recently, but it *used* to
be
the case that an essential part of the uniform was a
black-and-white
chequered band round the cuff, and merely removing *that* meant
that
the officer was no longer "in uniform". But that was a long
time ago
and things may have changed.


That was abolished no later than about 1965.



As I understand it, a police constable is never "off duty" -
although they may not be getting *paid* for their services, they
*always* carry their Warrant when in public. Unless it puts them
at personal risk of harm, they are *required* to intervene in any
situation that needs the presence of police,. I have been told
that the Warrant constitutes "uniform" - so, for example, a
constable ordering you to stop your motor vehicle can do so
simply by holding his Warrant in your view. Indeed, I've seen it
done.

--
MatSav


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Old October 13th 09, 03:43 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,uk.local.london
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Default Cops caught in free first class rail rap.

MatSav matthew | dot | savage | at | dsl | dot | pipex | dot | com
wrote

"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
, Bill Borland wrote:


black-and-white
chequered band round the cuff, and merely removing *that* meant
that


That was abolished no later than about 1965.


As I understand it, a police constable is never "off duty" -


Not so. There were some hilarious cases where police were refused
service in off-licenses and supermarkets due to a Victorian statute
that referred to constables on duty frequenting licensed premises.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/3357707.stm

A hungry policeman was banned by shop staff from buying a sausage roll
- under a law forbidding sale of refreshments for officers on duty. ==

In the past, removing the armband worked. More recently a radio
conversation with a superior officer to get a order placing them
off-duty but a chief constable was snookered because she had no
superior officer.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/n...re/3569725.stm

checkout staff at Tesco in Northallerton relented when Ms Cannings took
off her hat and epaulettes and said she was no longer on duty.

although they may not be getting *paid* for their services, they
*always* carry their Warrant when in public. Unless it puts them
at personal risk of harm, they are *required* to intervene in any
situation that needs the presence of police,. I have been told
that the Warrant constitutes "uniform" - so, for example, a
constable ordering you to stop your motor vehicle can do so
simply by holding his Warrant in your view. Indeed, I've seen it
done.


May work but have you a legal cite that it is legally binding ?

--
Mike D
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Old October 13th 09, 08:51 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,uk.local.london
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Default Cops caught in free first class rail rap.

On 11 Oct, 16:45, CJB wrote:
On Oct 10, 5:49*pm, "DB." wrote:

* * Six Scotland Yard officers have been caught using their warrant
cards to get free first class rail travel.
* * They now face a misconduct hearing for abusing the Met's scheme -
which allows standard class trips.


More at:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...s-caught-in-fr...
orhttp://tinyurl.com/ylrpvx7


--
DB.


Daily Mirror

Cops caught in free first class rail rap

10/10/2009

http://tinyurl.com/ylrpvx7

MISCONDUCT

Six Scotland Yard officers have been caught using their warrant cards
to get free first class rail travel.

They now face a misconduct hearing for abusing the Met's scheme -
which allows standard class trips.

Under the arrangement, officers can get to work free on all trains
from within 70 miles of London if they police the carriages.

But two detectives in the counter-terrorism unit and a sergeant and
three constables from Westminster were identified as rule breakers in
an operation by an anti-corruption squad on September 11.

The Met has already been asked to justify the £24million annual cost
of the free travel scheme.

Commander Moir Stewart said: "It is unacceptable for a minority to
misuse this concession."




At least we can be sure that all the police granted this free travel
privilege will have declared it ti HM Revenue and Customs and will be
paying income tax and national insurance on the vakue of the benefit
in kind. Because, after all, the police are law abiding citizens.

As guardians of the law, they are of course always careful to honour
the law. ;-)


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