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Old October 25th 09, 01:08 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default West London Line - what recession?

After a spell on the NLL sampling a 378 yesterday, I headed towards home via
Willesden Junction and the West London Line.

(Incidentally, I was very impressed with the Gospel Oak - where I boarded -
'Overground effect'. Bright, well staffed, clean, felt safe etc. A far cry
from the Gospel Oak I remember of yore - closed booking office, dirty,
broken down Bubble Cars on the GOBLIN etc).

Willesden - Clapham was a 313, being the 'new trains' we are expecting
shortly in Brighton. 3-NOL? Having started pretty well loaded, we were
overwhelmed by the Westfield crowd at Shepherds Bush. Predominantly
well-heeled looking young couples, returning with lots of boutique-style
bags to Battersea, Wandsworth and the nicer bits of Surrey, I imagine. Not
sure what to make of this, really. On the one hand, it's clear Westfield
must have a significant public transport penetration. Much better than the
public transport disaster which is Lakeside. On the other hand, you can't
shop in two places at the same time, so somewhere else must be hurting
badly. Oxford Street, perhaps - and *yet again* much of central London
surface transport was seriously disrupted by a march. But the tourists
should keep zone 1 shopping in good health, so it must be the high streets
feeling the pain.

Real crush loading on leaving Olympia. The real surprise, for me, was
Imperial Wharf. I expected very little patronage, the parallel being some of
the stations on the DLR extensions in the early days. In fact, in my
carriage alone, I reckon about 30 alighted. As we pulled into Clapham, a
sizeable throng were waiting to board, albeit swelled by the Chelsea
football crowd. Not the quiet backwater I remember from a decade or more
ago.

I imagine, as Christmas shopping ramps up, there will be people unable to
board at Shepherds Bush. Does this happen already? God forbid that IKEA open
a place at/near Westfield, and pax try to struggle on with self-assembly
wardrobes etc........

Chris






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Old October 25th 09, 01:27 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default West London Line - what recession?

Chris Read wrote:

After a spell on the NLL sampling a 378 yesterday, I headed towards
home via Willesden Junction and the West London Line.

Willesden - Clapham was a 313, being the 'new trains' we are
expecting shortly in Brighton. 3-NOL? Having started pretty well
loaded, we were overwhelmed by the Westfield crowd at Shepherds Bush.
[...] Real crush loading on leaving Olympia. The real surprise, for
me, was Imperial Wharf. I expected very little patronage, the
parallel being some of the stations on the DLR extensions in the
early days. In fact, in my carriage alone, I reckon about 30
alighted. As we pulled into Clapham, a sizeable throng were waiting
to board, albeit swelled by the Chelsea football crowd. Not the quiet
backwater I remember from a decade or more ago.


Yes, it's phenomenal, isn't it. Your experience matches mine, posted
here a couple of weeks back.

Someone should be congratulated for recognising there was going to be a
good demand for this service, and then chastised for so severely
underestimating it.

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683850.html
(159 004 at Reading, 7 Jun 1995)
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Old October 25th 09, 01:52 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default West London Line - what recession?

Paul Corfield wrote:

You could argue that the planning requirements are therefore working.
There were substantial investment obligations placed on Westfield and
these are helping to bring people to the area without using their
cars. I don't know how bad the road traffic is in the area but I have
not read any "nightmare" headlines other than not very long after
Westfield opened when I think the West Cross route got jammed up.
This often happens as people go for the first "look see" visit.


The road network of the area is a solid jam when Westfield closes. IMO the
jam should be kept inside the car parks so it doesn't bother anyone else.
Since the capacity of the road network is known, allowing cars out of
Westfield too quickly seems pointless and avoidable.


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Old October 25th 09, 02:28 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default West London Line - what recession?

Basil Jet wrote on 25 October
2009 14:52:03 ...
Paul Corfield wrote:
You could argue that the planning requirements are therefore working.
There were substantial investment obligations placed on Westfield and
these are helping to bring people to the area without using their
cars. I don't know how bad the road traffic is in the area but I have
not read any "nightmare" headlines other than not very long after
Westfield opened when I think the West Cross route got jammed up.
This often happens as people go for the first "look see" visit.


The road network of the area is a solid jam when Westfield closes. IMO the
jam should be kept inside the car parks so it doesn't bother anyone else.
Since the capacity of the road network is known, allowing cars out of
Westfield too quickly seems pointless and avoidable.


One of the problems for local residents is Westfield visitors parking
(legally or otherwise) in their streets, denying space to residents and
their visitors. This must also contribute to the jams at closing time.
If you limit the exit flow from the car parks, that will only
encourage more drivers to park in the surrounding roads.

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)
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Old October 25th 09, 02:31 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default West London Line - what recession?

On 25 Oct, 14:35, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 14:08:47 -0000, "Chris Read"

wrote:
Willesden - Clapham was a 313, being the 'new trains' we are expecting
shortly in Brighton. 3-NOL? Having started pretty well loaded, we were
overwhelmed by the Westfield crowd at Shepherds Bush. Predominantly
well-heeled looking young couples, returning with lots of boutique-style
bags to Battersea, Wandsworth and the nicer bits of Surrey, I imagine. Not
sure what to make of this, really. On the one hand, it's clear Westfield
must have a significant public transport penetration.


You could argue that the planning requirements are therefore working.
There were substantial investment obligations placed on Westfield and
these are helping to bring people to the area without using their cars.
I don't know how bad the road traffic is in the area but I have not read
any "nightmare" headlines other than not very long after Westfield
opened when I think the West Cross route got jammed up. *This often
happens as people go for the first "look see" visit.


I still wonder if the effect of Westfield is overestimated and the
effect of the interchange to the Central Line is underestimated. When
I've been there, it's only ever been for the latter, and it makes the
WLL hugely more useful as part of a transport network.


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Old October 25th 09, 05:20 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default West London Line - what recession?

Paul Corfield wrote:

If you want to see the horror effect of IKEA on public transport try to
get on the 192 bus from Tottenham Hale. It can only use little midibuses
and must rank as one of the most overcrowded routes I know. If only
Angel Road Station was to the south of the North Circular road and
actually had trains stop at it - it would provide very easy access to
IKEA and the huge Tescos at Edmonton. I suspect similar IKEA horrors are
inflicted on Tramlink in south London.


Yes, flat pack boxed are quite common on the trams, though I've not seen
it cause too much trouble (does anyone go to buy furniture at 9am?). I
once saw a mattress from a double bed onboard, which must have taken
some doing.

What it does need is a good walking route from the trams to Ikea, and
also across the main road near Waddon Marsh.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK
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Old October 25th 09, 06:40 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default West London Line - what recession?

On Oct 25, 10:35*am, Paul Corfield wrote:
Don't know about people being left behind but surely there is sufficient
track / signalling capacity that if LOROL wanted to run extras then they
could do so at weekends? * I suspect the Southern service is the more
critical one given it was already very popular *before* Westfield opened
and now it offers a direct service to a much wider catchment area.


Keep in mind that Kensington Olympia's former up loop can easily be
restored to add additional passing/recess capabilities on the up side
of the WLL. If trains to and from Shepherd's Bush begin to non-stop
Kenny O in favour of West Brompton, this may be very useful when
pathing the service.

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Old October 25th 09, 06:40 PM posted to uk.transport.london,misc.transport.urban-transit,uk.railway
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Default West London Line - what recession?

On Oct 25, 7:08*am, "Chris Read" wrote:
After a spell on the NLL sampling a 378 yesterday, I headed towards home via
Willesden Junction and the West London Line.

(Incidentally, I was very impressed with the Gospel Oak - *where I boarded -
'Overground effect'. Bright, well staffed, clean, felt safe etc. A far cry
from the Gospel Oak I remember of yore - closed booking office, dirty,
broken down Bubble Cars on the GOBLIN etc).

Willesden - Clapham was a 313, being the 'new trains' we are expecting
shortly in Brighton. 3-NOL? Having started pretty well loaded, we were
overwhelmed by the Westfield crowd at Shepherds Bush. Predominantly
well-heeled looking young couples, returning with lots of boutique-style
bags to Battersea, Wandsworth and the nicer bits of Surrey, I imagine. Not
sure what to make of this, really. On the one hand, it's clear Westfield
must have a significant public transport penetration. Much better than the
public transport disaster which is Lakeside. On the other hand, you can't
shop in two places at the same time, so somewhere else must be hurting
badly. Oxford Street, perhaps - and *yet again* much of central London
surface transport was seriously disrupted by a march. But the tourists
should keep zone 1 shopping in good health, so it must be the high streets
feeling the pain.

Real crush loading on leaving Olympia. The real surprise, for me, was
Imperial Wharf. I expected very little patronage, the parallel being some of
the stations on the DLR extensions in the early days. In fact, in my
carriage alone, I reckon about 30 alighted. As we pulled into Clapham, a
sizeable throng were waiting to board, albeit swelled by the Chelsea
football crowd. Not the quiet backwater I remember from a decade or more
ago.

I imagine, as Christmas shopping ramps up, there will be people unable to
board at Shepherds Bush. Does this happen already? God forbid that IKEA open
a place at/near Westfield, and pax try to struggle on with self-assembly
wardrobes etc........

This is good to hear. It is a pity IMHO that the West London lines
has to carry such a mix of local, transit, intercity, and freight
traffic. From what I have read, there is little room for more
traffic.

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Old October 25th 09, 06:51 PM posted to uk.transport.london,misc.transport.urban-transit,uk.railway
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Default West London Line - what recession?



"E27002" wrote

This is good to hear. It is a pity IMHO that the West London lines
has to carry such a mix of local, transit, intercity, and freight
traffic. From what I have read, there is little room for more
traffic.


No intercity traffic any more. But LO will get a big increase in capacity
when it goes to 4tph of 4 coach trains.

Peter
(old enough to have travelled on the train to Clapham Junction when the
service was 2 trains per day, steam-hauled, on the Motorail to Fishguard,
and more recently Deltic-hauled from Bromley South).

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Old October 25th 09, 06:52 PM posted to uk.transport.london,misc.transport.urban-transit,uk.railway
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Default West London Line - what recession?

On Oct 25, 7:40*pm, E27002 wrote:

*It is a pity IMHO that the West London lines
has to carry such a mix of local, transit, intercity, and freight
traffic. *From what I have read, there is little room for more
traffic.


In its present form, yes, although increasing linespeed, replacing the
three-aspect signals with 4-aspect, reinstating the southbound loop at
Olympia (as has already been mentioned), relaying the points at
Olympia to allow higher-speed entry and exit to the loop (and ensuring
any new loop is also so fitted) and extending the AC electrification
to Shepherd's Bush (so that time need not be wasted stopped at North
Pole to do the changeover) could all help to increase capacity.

BTW, there are now no InterCity (or similar) trains on the line
following the December 2008 timetable change when the Cross Country
services to Brighton were withdrawn.


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