Paul Corfield wrote:

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 09:37:44 -0000, "solar penguin"
wrote:

I've been thinking a lot about my feelings towards Oyster, trying to
work out _why_ I'm so sceptical towards it. I think it's because I'm
sceptical towards the whole "zonal fares and Travelcards" concepts
which Oyster is far too heavily mixed up in for my liking.

You'll have to explain your thinking here. If there is a zonal, ride
at will, multi modal ticket available I would always purchase it.

Really? Why? I wouldn't unless it that ticket just happened to be the
best option for my specific journey.

My thinking is that if there's a simple, no-frills product that gives
exactly what I want, then I'm the sort of person who will always prefer
that instead of fancy, all-singing, all-dancing products whose extra
features I'll probably never use enough to justify getting them.

In short, I just hate buying stuff that I'm got going to use fully. It
feels wrong and wasteful

And there's nothing special or magical about train tickets that makes
them an exception to this rule.

It
just gives so much more choice over travel options with little need
to be concerned about where you are going once you've worked out the
zones you want. Still I've buying zonally based tickets (all over the
world) for about 30 years or so so I suppose I'm used to them.

I don't think I'll ever get used to them.

In fact, I'd actually prefer the option of being able to choose to buy
special cheap-rate tickets that give even less choice than at present,
for those times when they're the best option for my journey.

Take for example, a return ticket between Gipsy Hill and "London
Terminals". At the moment tickets are valid to and from any of
half-a-dozen terminals, by almost any possible route. But if I know in
advance I'm going to London Bridge and returning from there, it would be
great to get a London Bridge only ticket, which cheaper because I don't
have to pay for the availability at Victoria, Waterloo, etc.


I would also caution that you are mixing ticket products with ticket
media. Oyster is simply the Smartcard which in turn is just a very
clever, higher capacity magnetic ticket.

Travelcards existed a long time before Oyster was even conceived.

True, but before it was always possible to ignore them in favour of
better options. They were just a useless irrelevance, with the obvious
exception of the One Day Travelcard of course, which is useful on those
rare special occasions when I do need to make complex journeys.

The fact that Travelcards are the _only_ form of season on Oyster means
that the other, potentially better types of season are becoming ignored,
neglected, etc. by the powers that be.

The
idea of Pay as you Go (or Stored Value) was also conceived in the days
of magnetic ticketing. Hong Kong and Singapore started off on
magnetically based SVT systems. I can sort of conceive why someone
may be dubious about SVT replacing a "ride at will" ticket but I
struggle with why anyone would be bothered by having a Travelcard in
place of a point to point season.

I'm bothered because when I'm normally only travelling between Gipsy
Hill and West Croydon then I only need a ticket between a ticket between
Gipsy Hill and West Croydon, and no more. I don't see why I should be
forced into paying extra for a ticket that's also valid between on the
tube Hampstead and Edgware, or the DLR between Canning Town and
Woolwich, or etc. etc. on occasions when I don't need any of that.

(Actually that's a poor example because there's not a simple Gipsy Hill
to West Croydon ticket. You have to get one to "Croydon Stations",
which is stupid because the connection at Norwood Junction is so poor
that anyone travelling to somewehere in the East Croydon area will
usually be quicker going to West Croydon and walking!)

OTOH on those isolated occasions when I actually need to make to make a
more complicated journey, then I'll happily buy a more complicated
ticket like a One Day Travelcard, or whatever the most appropriate
ticket for that specific journey is.

on LUL travelcard effectively
replaced a myriad of point to point season options back in the 1980s
- I don't recall there being massive disagreement with that concept.

Maybe there should've been. It would've helped avoid the current mess.


If Oyster becomes standard on National Rail, it could be a serious
blow against proper point-to-point seasons. I'm worried they might
even be abolished on NR to force everyone into paying extra for
Travelcards, just like has already happened on LU.

Oyster has been accepted on NR for season ticket purposes
(Travelcards) for years and has not written anything off in terms of
point to point seasons. For as long as point to points are largely
TOC specific products then they'll survive because the TOCs want the
money in their bank accounts and not going through some shared pot
like Travelcard.


Let's hope so.


OTOH If someone could produce a sort of point-to-point equivalent of
Oyster, I'd probably welcome it with open arms. (Hmmm... Isn't that
more or less what SWT were trying to do before those *******s at TfL
stopped them and forced them to use Oyster instead?)

I cannot for the life of me see why point to point seasons could not
be placed on the Oyster ticket medium.

Again, let's hope so.

I know much less about ITSO but
haven't SWT been trialling ITSO based point to point seasons?

That's probably what I was thinking of above.

I would
have thought it would be a pre-requisite of ITSO adoption that the
basic product range offered by all TOCs could be supported via ITSO
"products" that can be loaded to ITSO compliant cards via ITSO
compatible retailing / validation equipment.