On 3 Jan, 00:08, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:
On 31 Dec 2009, 21:48, MIG wrote:





On 31 Dec, 17:36, John B wrote:

On Dec 31, 4:43*pm, MIG wrote:

On 31 Dec, 14:28, Chris wrote:

Just been nosing around London TravelWatch's webpage for Oyster on the
rails & the last para here -http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/news.php?id=696, says

"Oyster Extension Permits

If your Travelcard is on Oyster, and you wish to travel outside your
zones, but still within London by national rail, you will now be
required to ??~set’ an Oyster Extension Permit before the start of
your journey at a ticket office or machine. If you do not do this, you
will liable for a penalty fare of £20, even if you have ample credit
on your card.

I am pretty sure that this is illegal. *There is no way that it could
comply with the penalty fare rules.

How d'you figure that?

In order to avoid being charged a PF in a PF area, you must on demand
"produce a ticket or other authority authorising your travelling by
that train", subject to the usual exceptions (no facilities to buy,
inadequate notices, a notice or railway staff said you could travel).

For Oyster cards that have Travelcards loaded, Oyster PAYG will not be
valid on National Rail services outside your Travelcard zones unless
you also have an IEP loaded. This means that, if you're gripped
outside your Travelcard zones and don't have an IEP, then you don't
have a ticket or other authority authorising your travelling by that
train, so you're eligible for a PF.

It's exactly as if you were to try and travel outside your Travelcard
zones on Oyster on NR today (on one of the non-inter-available routes)
- the amount of PAYG balance on your card is irrelevant, and you are
thoroughly eligible for a PF, because Oyster PAYG is not a valid means
of payment.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/legislation/pf/

But in the relevant context, it will be valid means of payment. *In
fact, it's the only means of payment you'd be able to use in the
circumstances. *An OEP isn't a means of payment. *Will the exit
barrier refuse to charge the card if it hasn't got an OEP on it at the
end of an ungripped journey?
But more importantly, how is the warning displayed when you start your
journey? *That's going to be the main issue. *It's not enough having
the information on the Web or discussed in forums.

Under Penalty Fares, the TfL site currently only mentions not having
touched in for liability.

A FoI request to TfL has revealed some more information about OEPs.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...ension_permits

Of interest is a full list of National Rail self-service machines
where PAYG can be added.

The added stations can be used to pick up online purchases and auto-
topup from the 13th January.

Look at this bit

"If the customer completes their journey within the zones covered by
their season ticket, the OEP will remain on their card. If requested,
you must remove the OEP from their Oyster card to make sure they do
not incur an incomplete journey whilst travelling within the zones
covered by their season ticket."

So are they saying that if you get an OEP and then don't travel out of
your zones, you get an incomplete journey?

As for penalty fares, I think that the guilty-till-proven-innocent
implication of penalty fares has now been stretched so far beyond what
Parliament ever agreed to, that the court cases that will result from
this could lead to a whole lot of under-the-radar PF schemes elsewhere
having to be abandoned. I think that would be a Good Thing, but some
may disagree.