On Jan 22, 1:51*pm, MIG wrote:

On 22 Jan, 12:29, Mizter T wrote:

On Jan 22, 11:08*am, MIG wrote:
[snip]
It does sound good (although not mentioning connections south) but I
suspect that it is sufficiently out of date not to be worth paying too
much attention to. *A lot has happened in "a couple of years", not
least the election of a new Mayor, a major recession and some dodgy
deals*. *I don't simply take the word of the local campaigners either,
who mention the reduction in service to LB (and Charing Cross) and
lack of connections south, but don't mention the ELL, but I recognise
that they have some justification for cynicism.

I guess we'll know soon enough when the timetable comes out.

*To get the go-ahead for things that may yet not go ahead (and Virgin
not involved ...).

I agree that things may well have changed - plus as we've seen the RUS
is not a hallowed document, it's a recommendation, and it strongly
recommended that there be a replacement for the SLL (the proposed Vic-
Bellingham service) which seemingly isn't now going to happen.

With regards to your "dodgy deals" comment, I assume this is in
relation to the cutting of the SLL, right? Well, one justification was
the extension of the other platforms at Battersea Park - whether that
happens any time soon is a fair enough question. However at the other
end of the line, the redevelopment at London Bridge is indeed going
ahead, as it's all linked in with building the 'Shard' tower right
next to the station, which is itself intermeshed with the Thameslink
Programme works. Of course, one could make an argument about about it
being a "dodgy deal" for this to happen in the first place, what with
the associated reduction of terminating platforms at LB from 9 down to
6[*].

The ELL phase 2 to Clapham Jn seems fairly certain to happen (no doubt
it's controversial because of the associated SLL stuff, but I can't
see the plug being pulled on it now).

So are your comments predominantly about Battersea Park and the
disappearing SLL service? Or a wider comment, perhaps including
reference to Crossrail and other stuff?

Well, mainly about the loss of SLL, and then the loss of the
replacement service from Victoria.

I was thinking that the loss of the service will definitely happen,
but that the service that replaces it may yet not, although you are
more confident that it will happen.

No, that's not what I meant, but on re-reading them perhaps my
comments weren't very clear.

What I was trying to say was that I didn't see any chance of the plug
being pulled on ELL phase 2.

However, in the (I think very) unlikely event that was to happen, then
there would *have* to be some sort of SLL replacement service (for
example a Vic-Bellingham service) - apart from anything else, Clapham
High Street and Wandsworth Road would otherwise be left without any
service

I don't know what the latest is re the fate of the proposed then
rejected Vic-Bellingham service - afraid I wasn't following things at
all much recently, so I'm not up to date with the latest developments
on this front. I do however know that there is very considerable local
opposition to the loss of the SLL on parts of the route. I wouldn't
say I'm confident that the proposed Vic-Bellingham service will be
resurrected - in fact I wouldn't say anything because I just don't
know what's going on now.


(My Virgin comment was thinking back to how other services were cut to
make way for PUG and Operation Princess, and remain cut, without the
promised benefit.)

OK.


I seem to remember there was a deal around the zoning of Shoreditch as
well, but that's more of an aside that explains people's cynicism.

The re-zoning of Shoreditch seemed to be part of the overall deal that
the Mayor did with the DfT - or should I say the deal they did with
each other - this was the very same deal that involved the Mayor/TfL
opting to redirect the funding for the proposed Vic-Bellinham service
(a quasi-replacement for the doomed SLL service) into TfL's coffers so
as to help pay for ELL phase 2.

As I understand it, part of the deal was the DfT listening to TOCs
concerns about the possibility for revenue abstraction with SHS being
in zone 2 (i.e. pax transferring to the ELL to get to SHS instead of
travelling to London Bridge and the TOCs losing the fares money), and
then making the funding contingent on TfL agreeing to re-zone SHS into
zone 1 to mitigate against any such possible revenue abstraction.

So it's all bound together somehow - the Shard skyscraper, Thameslink
2K, the ELL, plans for platform lengthening on routes out of Victoria
etc etc etc.