On 22 Jan, 22:21, Mizter T wrote:
On Jan 22, 8:57*pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:





"Mizter T" wrote

Having thought about it, I'm possibly even warming just a little
(though only a little) to the notion that, given the seemingly
inevitable downfall of the existing SLL service, an enhanced Vic-
Dartford service plus the new ELL phase 2 service might not be such a
bad result, and that the loss of the proposed 'SLL replacement' Vic-
Bellingham service can be taken on the chin (a shame, and it would be
nice to have it, but perhaps not a complete essential). Part of the
problem is the way in which this has all been handled, i.e. in a
rather furtive and underhand manner.

Maybe stops at Denmark Hill and Peckham Rye could even be inserted on
a few other trains that currently run fast along the Catford Loop to
and from Victoria?

One problem with using Victoria - Dartford trains to replace the Victoria -
London Bridge SLL service, at least when the Battersea Park junction is
severed, is that there is no route between the Chatham high level lines and
the platforms at Wandsworth Road. It is possible to go via Stewarts Lane,
though the layout at Battersea Pier Junction would complicate platforming at
Victoria (the up low level route feeds into the Up Chatham Slow, so ideally
routed into Victoria platforms 5-8, while the down low level feeds out of
the Down Chatham Fast, so ideally out of platforms 1-4). If Battersea Park
is retained, AIUI Networkers are barred from the route (though it may or may
not take much to clear it for them).

Yes, that's a very good point, I hadn't really thought about that
issue. Hmm. Well, I suppose the brutal solution would be to simply
give up on serving Wandsworth Road with Victoria trains altogether,
and leave it for ELL phase 2 to serve, and tell pax that they can do
one of four things...

* get to Victoria by going to Clapham Jn on the ELL and changing
(though the geographical daftness of that does offend me somewhat)
* get the bus to Vauxhall and then tube (or another bus) to Victoria
* walk to Clapham High Street and catch the train from there (AIUI the
Vic-Dartford trains could serve Clapham HS, as there's a junction the
name of which I forget that provides access to and from the Atlantic
Line)
* walk to Battersea Park and get a train (though the walk isn't all
that direct as there's all this railway land in the middle! Plus
they're not not the most appealing of streets to walk down.)

Not ideal in any case though. If a portion of the Up low level line
through Stewart's Lane could be made reversible where it joins the
Chatham Slow, might that work? (I dare say that something like that is
far far easier said than done!)

Sorry, I'm really not keeping up. Two messages behind at all times.
The Battersea Reversible came to mind, but that would interfere with
Southern, so not much help.





There is currently one up morning peak long distance train to Victoria which
calls at Denmark Hill en route, and before the December timetable change
there were three, so stops by fast trains here and/or at Peckham Rye are not
out of the question. Indeed, during the period in the 1980s when the SLL
service was peak hours only, and hourly off-peak Victoria - Maidstone East
train called at Denmark Hill (and later, at Peckham Rye as well).

I think that it's around there (Denmark Hill and Peckham Rye) where a
lot of the opposition and campaigning has been been brewing (though
I'm a bit out of the loop on the latest) - so putting in some extra
stops might address matters somewhat. Though at Denmark Hill I think
the loss of a through service to London Bridge is quite a big part of
it (the almost adjacent King's College Hospital is part of the same
Trust as Guy's Hospital next to London Bridge, and I think this
arrangement manages to generate a certain degree of inter-hospital
traffic of staff, patients and students, and so this is where some of
the noise is coming from).

I think that's true, and can't really be solved. The lack of
crossovers on the route has always struck me, eg Catford to Atlantic.