View Single Post
  #9   Report Post  
Old February 16th 10, 01:50 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
MIG MIG is offline
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,154
Default LM penalty fares scheme: New Oyster Bizarrity

On 16 Feb, 13:20, Mizter T wrote:
On Feb 16, 11:49*am, MIG wrote:





On 16 Feb, 11:13, MIG wrote:


On 16 Feb, 10:40, Neil *Williams wrote:


On Feb 16, 11:34*am, MIG wrote:


It turned out that a punter who was travelling from Euston to Watford
on a zone 1 - 9 travelcard season stored on Oyster was being told that
he was technically without a valid ticket because it hadn't registered
a touch at Euston. *(He wasn't actually PFed or anything.)


If it was a 1-9 Travelcard, the PFI was right, because Watford
Junction is not in Zone 9, it's in a special non-Travelcard zone.
Thus, he'd have had to register a touch in (and possibly an OEP?) to
pay the PAYG amount that would be due on top.


I could have misheard the zones, and originally thought it was an OEP
issue (interesting in itself), but it was the other things that were
said about season tickets on Oyster that were worrying.


And I should have said, I initially perked up, all excited, saying "is
this about OEPs actually being enforced?", and he was clear that that
wasn't the issue in this case. *He was concerned about the lack of
touch in at Euston, not the lack of OEP, and was concerned about
proving the start of the journey, not the end of it.


Technically speaking touching in even when using an Oyster card loaded
with a Travelcard that covers all the required zones is a requirement
when using NR. See the "Oyster Conditions of Use on National rail
services" (PDF):http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...s-of-carriage-...

---quote---
3.6 When you use a National Rail service, you should touch your Oyster
card on the yellow card
reader before you start your journey, at the station you are leaving
from; and at the end of your
journey, when you arrive at your destinations station. You can still
use your Oyster card at
stations where there is no yellow card reader or if it is not working
provided that your
Travelcard is valid for the journey you are making. You may be asked
instead to show your
Oyster card (and photocard where needed).

3.8 If you are using an Oyster card with a Travelcard season ticket
(or tickets) loaded on to it and
wish to start your journey from, or travel to, a destination outside
the availability of your
Travelcard season ticket, or on a route where your season ticket is
not valid, you must
purchase a ticket for your journey. However, if your journey begins or
ends at a station within
the London National Rail Pay As You Go area, you can follow the
instructions set out in 3.18
and 3.19 provided you have sufficient pay as you go credit on your
Oyster card to pay for the
additional journey(s). Failure to either purchase a ticket or follow
the instructions laid out in
3.18 and 3.19 may mean you have to pay a Penalty Fare and/or render
you liable to
prosecution.
---/quote---

Not sure what happened to clause 3.7, but it skips straight from 3.6
to 3.8. *Clauses 3.18 and 3.19 refer to the OEP arrangement.

Additionally, in the TfL conditions of carriage, there isn't a
specific exemption that allows holders of Travelcards (and Bus Passes
where applicable) loaded on Oyster not to touch-in - in practice, on
the DLR, bendy buses and Tramlink this isn't enforced (as long as one
is remaining in the zones covered on the DLR).

I await a sermon on how this all means Boundary Zone fares for
inboundary Travelcards are inevitably doomed


If having to touch in with Oyster travelcards really was strictly
enforced, then there are two issues.

Firstly, it would be a rule invented purely for the purpose of
penalising people for breaking a rule, when no fares are being
evaded. I look forward to seeing such things tested in court.

Secondly, it would change the NRCoC, and I don't see how TfL or any
other operator can do that. Specifically, it would render a season
ticket invalid if stored on Oyster and used in combination with
another ticket from outside of its validity.

So, despite my many misgivings about Oyster, I will be more charitable
than you and stick with the assumption that the exhortations to touch
in are purely practical, to keep people in the habit of doing so, in
case of problems in the situations when they need to.

And let's face it: until someone comes up with a definition of
"journey", none of the TfL stuff has any meaning at all.