On Feb 20, 11:35*am, Roy Badami wrote:

An OEP is needed when a card holder has both a Travelcard season
ticket and Pay-as-you-Go credit on their Oyster card and wishes to
travel from a station within the validity of their Travelcard season
ticket to a station within the Travelcard zones but not within the
validity of their Travelcard season ticket.

Not for travel on the tube, surely? *I thought you always used to just
touch in and out and it automatically charged you the correct fare? *Or
has that changed?

No, it hasn't changed - OEPs are not required for LU, DLR or London
Overground journeys.


So presumably the above only applies to journeys on National Rail?

Correct.


What about journeys part on the tube and part on National Rail? *What
about London Overground?

If a journey is part NR, then an OEP is still required. OEPs are not
required on London Overground network (which these days for ticketing
purposes acts as if it's part of the LU network - though of course NR
ticketing validities continue to apply, IYSWIM - the two run side by
side).


Assuming that the above quote is an oversimplification, where is the
actual rule stated?

The quote was in the context of Oyster PAYG on NR, because London
TravelWatch were discussing OEPs.

The rules are stated on the TfL webpage he
"How to use a Travelcard and pay as you go together on National Rail"
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oyster...aspx#section-5

The specific 'letter of the law' w.r.t. the rules is contained in both
the TfL conditions of carriage, and the new "Oyster Conditions of Use
on National rail services" - both available here coz I ain't trawling
through them now!:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/termsandconditions/899.aspx


If the journey is made without an OEP, and the card holder touches in
and out, then the correct fare is charged.

Right, that's the whole point of smartcard ticketing. *So that's just
like it's always been, then?

Yes.


In all these cases, the holder is liable to a
Penalty Fare if challenged when outside the validity of the season
ticket.

Hang on, have I misread that, or is someone seriously saying that you
can now be issued with a penalty fare for paying the *correct* fare for
the journey.

Yes, supposedly. The basic issue here is that the TOCs are concerned
about someone starting their journey within their Travelcard's zonal
validity, then travelling to somewhere outside their zonal validity
but still within the zones - they don't see that the pax has any
incentive to then touch-out at the end of that journey to pay the
correct fare (i.e. the PAYG extension fare), which is a particular
issue at NR stations given that the majority are ungated.

What an OEP does is to switch on the 'entry charge' system that
normally only applies to pure PAYG journeys - thus with an OEP, when
an Oyster card loaded with a Travelcard is touched-in at a station
within the Travelcard's zonal validity, the 'entry charge' is debited
from the card. The passenger thus has the incentive to touch-out at
the end of the journey whereupon the correct fare will be charged (by
means of refunding the entry charge minus the appropriate extension
fare) - if the passenger does not do this, then they'd be hit with the
full 'entry charge' (which is actually less for a multi-modal journey
- i.e. Travelcard plus PAYG - than a pure PAYG journey, but that's a
detail).

An OEP is thus a signifier of intent - it shows that the passenger is
intending to pay the correct fare at their destination by touching-out
at the far end. It's basically there to satisfy RPIs that one is doing
things 'properly'.

However, as has been discussed already in other threads, the whole
system rather falls flat on its arse because OEPs are not readily
available from the majority of NR stations in London. It's hard to see
a Penalty Fare issued to someone who didn't have an OEP because they
started from a station where OEPs weren't readily available standing
up to the slightest challenge.


Despite this, London Travelwatch have received a
complaint where a passenger with a Zone 1-6 Travelcard season ticket
on their Oyster card failed to touch in when travelling within these
zones and received a Penalty Fare.

Under what circumstances would a Zone 1-6 Travelcard *not* be valid
within Zones 1-6? *Now I'm really confused.

It's a screw up on the part of the RPIs who issued the PF. Whilst the
rules do technically state that a passenger should touch-in when using
an Oyster card even when it's loaded with a Travelcard, they don't
make out it's a do-or-die situation (I think the wording is "should"
rather than "must" - and only if there's an Oyster validator at the
starting station.)

In all likelihood it seems like the RPIs didn't really know what they
were doing - they were probably operating under the misapprehension
that every Oyster card should now be validated, regardless of whether
it was being used in PAYG or Travelcard mode.

*If* the pax in question was travelling from say Fenchurch Street out
to Grays - in PAYG-land but outside zones 1-6 - then they should
ensure that they touch-in beforehand, as their journey will be covered
by a mix of Travelcard/PAYG. In this situation they could be subject
to a PF.


How are customers supposed to understand any of this? *I'm now quite
thoroughly confused...

The whole OEP concept causes confusion.