MIG wrote:

On 28 Feb, 23:33, "solar penguin"
wrote:
MIG wrote:

The more I think about it, the more the excuses don't wash. Think
about what actually happens.

A punter makes a number of journeys, always touching in and out
according to the rules, all journeys resolved. The system "knows"
exactly where the punter has been the whole time. All touches are
recorded.

Then the system actively intervenes and deems the whole series of
journeys to be one journey.

Unfortunately, that's not what happens. It's not a case of the
system _actively_ intervening to make them one journey. Just the
opposite. The punter travels around, touching in and out, but the
system _passively_ thinks of all this as one journey by default,
unless something actively intervenes (e.g. a time out or touching
out at a non-OSI station) and splits it into a whole series of
journeys.

Well, not really. When one touches out, the first journey is resolved
and a fare is calculated. This doesn't wait for a timeout.

Only when you're touching out at a non-OSI station. If you touch out at
an OSI, the fare is calculated but the journey is _not_ fully resolved
until the OSI's interchange time limit is up.

This topsy-turvey machine logic goes against good old human common sense
which thinks of the journey as over as soon as we touch out. That's the
problem.


When one touches in again, the system records a touch in. It can
surely only be defined as a continuation after some calculation
involving time and place of last touch out, so this must logically be
after the touch in.

All touches are recorded, and prove the punter to have followed the
rules, but these records are disregarded in order to charge a false
fare.

I am not interested in the excuses for how it works. It's absolutely
clear to the system that no journey is unresolved, and yet that's what
is charged for. It's fraud, whatever the mechanism.


I agree. And I'm not making excuses for how it works. (I'm the last
person who'd make excuses for Oyster!) I'm just trying to describe the
problem as accurately as possible, and that means getting to grips with
the looking-glass logic the system uses.

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