On Oct 7, 11:36 pm, wrote:

(Mizter T) wrote:

On Oct 7, 4:36 pm, wrote:

(tim....) wrote:

I would have to suggest that if at least one return tube journey
wasn't being made, no-one would even consider a travelcard as the
appropriate ticket.

I would expect the majority of day travelcard purchasers to make
precisely one return tube journey.

I reckon a good number make more than just a straightforward return
journey on the Tube when in London. As to the how much travelling
within London an outboundary Travelcard holder from somewhere like
Cambridge does, it'd be interesting to have some figures - I'd
guess that TfL and the TOCs might have some broad estimates, though
I'd also guess that any such data would quite likely be considered
commercially confidential.

Some for sure but not the largest number I'll bet.

In the absence of any data, said bet isn't going to get very far!


As I understood that the travelcard "add on" was "mandated" at a
fixed amount more than the DR, I find your difference surprising.

I thought that too but it appears that the travelcard addon price
varies hugely and totally lacks transparency.

It's a commercial decision made by the TOCs - though I'm unclear on
whether outboundary Day Travelcards contribute towards the
regulatory fares basket.

What I really don't understand is why it's gone up so steeply from £1 in
2001 to £6.50 now. That must be outside the regulatory controls.

That much - ouch! Yes, seems likely it isn't regulated, but I think the
fares basket regulatory mechanism can make things more complicated than
that.


I would assume that there is a set amount that must then go into
the 'Travelcard pot' (for later sharing out) from each outboundary
TC purchase though - but how much that is will surely be a
commercially confidential bit of information.

FCC claimed to me that the rate was set for them by TfL.

Well that's nonsense. Anyhow inboundary Travelcard prices are set jointly by
TfL and ATOC, as it's a joint product - my understanding is that the Mayor
through TfL can veto above RPI price rises (which Ken did much if not all
the time, whilst Boris agreed to an above RPI rise for 2010 fares).

So whatever the underlying amount that FCC has to put into the Travelcard
pot is not itself solely set by TfL anyway.


Consider Oxford and Cambridge. Same Day Return fares to London
Terminals (£20 or £13.20 with railcard, TOCs in same ownership (First
Group) but Cambridge's travelcard addon is more than double Oxford's.

Yes, it varies by TOC - FCC and SWT seem to particularly take the
mickey w.r.t. the level at which they set the 'add-on'. I did a
little research on this yesterday evening comparing fares from
various places in the south east, which if you're lucky might
result in a post in the future.

Yes, I was set off on this by an Observer survey of season ticket rates
where the same nonsenses exist between London Terminals and Travelcard
rates.

Seasons to London Terminals from the south east are regulated - are
outboundary Travelcards subject to any regulation per se? Perhaps not -
instead a sort of self-regulation mechanism might be relied upon (i.e. if
the outboundary Travelcard price is more than a rail-only season plus
inboundary season Travelcard, the existence of the outboundary season TC
would be pointless.)


However one thing I would say is that whilst outboundary Travelcard
prices from stations not far beyond the zonal boundary (such as Bat
& Ball and Sevenoaks) are often something of a considerable jump up
from the inboundary price (i.e. just zones 1-6), at quick glance it
doesn't appear that any of these add-ons is more than the cost of
an (inboundary) z1&2 Day Travelcard. If it was, it'd just encourage
people to sidestep it through split-ticketing, or drive people to,
er, drive (or whatever) to a station within the zonal boundary (of
course the latter happens to an extent anyway).

The Cambridge addon (£6.50) is more than the Zones 1 & 2 off-peak cap
(£5.60) UIVMM.

Bearing in mind that PAYG caps are now at the same level as their Day
Travelcard equivalents...

The Cambridge add-on is in fact more than a zone 1-4 off peak Day
Travelcard/ off-peak cap at £6.30.