On 6 Jan, 18:16, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thu, 6 Jan 2011 07:00:59 -0800 (PST), George
wrote:
On 5 Jan, 12:01, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Jan 5, 11:32 am, George wrote:
See:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=870_1293539979
Would anybody seriously suggest this is acceptable?
If that is the route 25 at Stratford video shot on Boxing Day then no
it is not really acceptable. The bit you conveniently miss is that
there was industrial action on the tube that day that caused such
excessive demand for buses to central London. As the 25 is the only
direct option from Stratford then I'd have to ask what else would be
expected? People will typically adopt a herd mentality and similar
scenes have been seen on other LUL strike days with double deckers
just as badly affected. I therefore fail to see the relevance of your
post title about it being "an argument" against bendy buses.
I have recently been to Hong Kong where I stood and watched one of the
highest demand locations for buses in the entire place during the PM
peak. This is Hung Hom in Kowloon near the Cross Harbour Tunnel. The
queues for buses stretch right along the bus stop area, up flights of
stairs, across a bridge and into the adjacent railway station. I stood
and observed people crushing into 12m double deck buses to the point
where people were jammed against the windscreen and people were jammed
against the front doors - when the driver could actually close them!
This was standard practice for bus after bus after bus and many routes
operate on higher frequencies than London. This "keep on loading"
attitude applied even when the next bus was clearly in sight and
waiting to get on the stop - if only the one that people were still
trying to get on would actually leave!
Ironically in one photo I took it is clear that "seats were available
on the upper deck" but even HK commuters don't always go upstairs.
Whether a bendy bus would be any better or worse I can't say. What I
can say is that double deckers - even very high capacity HK style ones
as often touted as the solution for route 25 - can be just as crowded
as your Stratford video. Therefore I don't see that one vehicle type
is necessarily any better than any other in such extreme
circumstances.
Yes I appreciate that there was a tube strike and it was exceptional
circumstances however such scenes are not unheard of on the 25, and
other bendy bus routes, in normal circumstances.
Please tell me how the exceptional circumstances that gave rise to the
video being filmed are also normal circumstances on the 25 and other
bendy routes?
Make your mind up George. *Why not simply say you hate bendy buses on
central London routes and then we all know where we stand. Dressing up
the same old issue under a new title won't help anyone.
****
Presumably somebody just had a camera/phone handy?
I don't use the word hate (that's for bitter and twisted people) but
like many others I do think open boarding bendy buses are totally
unsuitable for Central London.
At least on other buses there is some sort of order, the driver or
conductor has some sort of control over how many people try and get
on.
Sorry but this is simply not true. During strikes buses of all shapes
and sizes end up besieged with people pushing and shoving horrendously
and trying to board via the middle doors and the emergency exits. I've
seen it with my own eyes lots of times *in the suburbs*. *Most tube
strikes I try to avoid the central area but photos on Flickr plus
television and newspaper coverage provide plenty of evidence of what
transpires.
You get the siege mentality when buses are late. I've seen my fair share
of people refusing to stop boarding a bus when there's been a gap of
30-40 minutes.
****
Yes but the driver does have some control over the situation, with
uncontrolled boarding through three doors the driver has no control
whatsoever, the scenes in that footage are like something from a third
world country.
I would imagine the loads on the buses that you mention in Hong Kong
would seriously restrict the drivers visibility whilst driving and I
would imagine that, as with London, it is more a case of standing
passengers on the lower deck preventing other people from getting to
the staircase to go upstairs.
The simple fact is that those loads occur every single working day
because demand levels are so high despite big vehicles and high
frequencies. Drivers are used to driving buses under such crush
conditions. *HK buses are not fitted with "Bus Full" signs for no
reason.
Here is a photo of a full bus just to show you how busy they get - this
is not from my most recent trip. *What I witnessed this time was worse
than this photo.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2475974.../set-721576125...
To be fair to HK commuters they will typically search out every seat -
the example I quoted was a rare exception but you can see it on the
photograph. *I haven't put it on Flickr yet but I'll post the link when
I do.
****
Obviously potentially dangerous if the driver cannot see the kerb.
Oh well let's see whether the Borismaster offers any improvements when
it hits the streets.
Well we will have to see but I have my doubts as you know from many,
many exchanges in another place. *The real problem is that no one knows
how a Borismaster will work in practice in terms of doors, stairs,
platform, staffing and ticket / Oyster validation. *The mock up looks
remarkably like a bendy bus on the lower deck with validating devices by
every door. *That should be giving you the shakes already given it
rather implies open boarding which you don't believe works in a London
context ..... which is where we came in!
--
Paul C- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
****
I'm not entirely convinced about the Borismaster but we'll see.