"tim...." wrote in message
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"Recliner" wrote in message
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"tim...." wrote in message
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"Recliner" wrote in message
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"tim." wrote in message

If the flat management company wasn't VAT registered (because the
turnover's below the threshold), then no need to add VAT to the
clamping fee.

Actually the flat management company is unregistered because, as a
resident owned company, it is not allowed to register.

Why is that?

It's not a trading company.

I didn't think HMRC cared who the proprieter is. And, if not
registered, how could the company even pay money to HMRC?

It's registered at CoHouse and pays CT to HMRC, but it's not allowed
to register for VAT.

It pays money to HMRC for VAT in the same way that every other
consumer does.

Now I'm even more confused -- consumers don't pay VAT to HMRC. They
pay it to a trader, who passes it on to HMRC. Consumers have no
mechanism for paying VAT directly to HMRC.

Yep, and tha's exactly how the MC paidm VAT to HMRC

I think what you're saying is that you paid VAT to the clamper, who
must have been VAT registered. Did you pay him for his services
(which would have been VATable), or did he get paid through
collecting VAT-inclusive charges from illegal parkers? Or, I wonder,
did he illegally collect "VAT" from you, and just pocket it?

I don't know how he accounted for it, but I understand that his MO was
that he charged the clampee a "fine" and the business who hired him
the VAT element of that fine, which they would claim back from HMRC on
their VAT return.

Except than in our case we weren't registered and hence not able to
claim it back.

No, I still don't know why he worked that way (or indeed, if it was
legally correct).

It doesn't sound right. I would have thought he should have included VAT
in the fine, being prepared to issue a VAT receipt on request to the
clampee (just like, say, NCP does with its parking charges). He would
then pay the VAT collected to HMRC.

Did he issue you with VAT receipts (whether or not you could claim it
back)? If not, I suspect he was illegally pocketing it (clampers not
being renowned for their decency and honesty). There's a good chance
that he wasn't VAT registered (either because his turnover was genuinely
too low, or because he simply wasn't declaring all, or any, of his
taxable earnings).