London Banter - View Single Post

[email protected] · February 28th 11, 05:48 PM posted to uk.transport.london

In article ,
(Mizter T) wrote:

wrote:

In article ,
(Mizter T) wrote:

A question for you Colin - do you think the fact that this upcoming
'pay and wave' facility isn't going to accommodate for an adult
travelling with 11-15 year old children, without those children
holding separate tickets, inherently mean the whole idea is invalid
- regardless of the number of other people who would benefit from it?

I think that the present system strongly tends to rip off visitors
from outside London (and completely casual users from inside London
but I doubt there are many of them). It's all part of the general
problem in public transport that it is often hard work to use the
systems if you are not a regular customer.

I thought Paywave was supposed to level things up a bit but it
continues the horrendous treatment of non-London children over the age
of 10 who get charged full fares and have a lot more hassle getting
any tickets unless they get day Travelcards from their stations of
origin outside London (so no use for overnight stays).

Eh? But children *can* buy Day Travelcards *within* London - the
off-peak version (zones 1-6) currently costs GBP 3.00.

They can if they queues at ticket offices, yes.

The 11-15 Oyster photocard is available to children aged 11-15 who
live outside London. Yes, you need to apply in advance; yes you
need to pay GBP 10 for it, yes, it's not spontaneous; yes, the
child needs to remember to bring it - but it's available and it's
not a secret: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14310.aspx

You'll need to use it a lot to justify spending £10 on it! Hardly
available for casual visitors, even those who plan ahead.

How do you propose that a 'pay and wave' fare payment system would
work for multiple people travelling together with one card?
(Without just allowing accompanying children aged 11-15 to travel
for free, which isn't going to happen.)

As Roland said, don't sell it as family-friendly.

It's the same for me if I stay overnight, or would be if I didn't use
my bike as I will tomorrow/Wednesday. All the ticketing integration
that Capitalcards brought in is being slowly eroded.

Eh? What's the same for you? (Really - I don't get what you're
saying.)

There are few NR+TfL non-day return tickets, mostly not competitively
priced and only allowing end-to-end returns and not multiple tube trips as
day Travelcards do. Using my bike minimises my need to use public
transport within London and so bypasses the problem.

Think about it. What tickets are there for a trip that departs Cambridge
one morning, then King's Cross-Westminster, Westminster-Putney, then
Putney-Westminster, Westminster-King's Cross and return to Cambridge the
next day? Compare with the products available for similar trips taking
place on one day only.

I disagree with the notion that ticketing integration is being
eroded - what is an annoyance is that the situation on National
Rail is subtly different (e.g. no free travel for accompanied
children aged 5-10), but that's not TfL's fault.

If the premium above the day return fare for a day travelcard rises to the
level FCC and NXEA have taken it, above the cost of two off peak tube
journeys, it is often not clear which is the better ticket to buy. The
difference is now £7.00 for those without railcards. A Zones 1 & 2
off-peak travelcard is now £6.60. So anyone travelling from Cambridge and
not travelling outside zones 1 & 2 should buy a day return and then a TfL
travelcard when they get to London. Getting a day travelcard always used
to be a no-brainer. That's what I call erosion!

Note that many other TOCs, including the also First-owned Great Western,
have lower travelcard premia so it is still a no-brainer to get one, e.g.
from Oxford where the premium is £3.50 on the same £21 day return fare to
London Terminals and £5 (FCC & super off-peak only) from Brighton (CDR
£15).

Checking some more locations I see the premium from Winchester is £9.80.
With a zones 1-6 day travelcard at £8, what is the point of selling an
out-of London day travelcard at that price other than to rip people off to
avoid a queue at Waterloo? This is especially odd given that the premium
from Basingstoke (also SWT) is only £4.80 (via Woking).

Another example is Canterbury where the premium is £3.30 (or £3.50 via
HS1) on the £25.40 off-peak day return.

--
Colin Rosenstiel