In article , Arthur
Figgis writes
On 20/08/2011 21:39, Ken wrote:
In article , Paul Corfield
writes
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 20:09:00 +0100, Ken wrote:

In article , Paul Corfield
writes
On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 21:58:59 +0100, Ken wrote:

In article , Arthur
Figgis writes
On 19/08/2011 17:51, Ken wrote:
In article
,
Tristán White writes

http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/new...dler-wins-lond

on-tramlink-tram-order/archiv/2011/08.html

Swiss company Stadler's won the £16.3m contract, towards which
Croydon
Council contributes £3m.

So they're using them where they are least needed then.

Surely they wouldn't be much good anywhere else in London?


What I meant was that they are putting the extra trams where they
already have a frequent service, rather than using them where there is
no service, or the service is infrequent.

I am confused by your statement. Surely the plan is to put the trams
on the section where there is the greatest demand in order to provide
relief from overcrowding? I thought it was understood that the
Wimbledon line suffers some of the worst overcrowding so it makes
sense to add service there even if only on part of the route. The
single track sections are a bigger and more costly problem to solve.

What part of Tramlink has no service that, in your view, should have a
service? I am not aware that any part of the Tramlink network has an
infrequent service. Frequencies have been bolstered twice since TfL
took direct control of the service and the service has never really
been that infrequent - especially if you look at some of the rail
services on branches in and around South London. A number of them are
no better than every 30 minutes off peak although overlap sections do
better.

Before the tramlink was introduced there was a bus 726 between Bromley
and Croydon, the first bus on Sunday Morning leaving Bromley at 6.00. If
you have a look at the Tramlink timetable you will find the first tram
doesn't leave from Beckenham Junction until 07:20.

Bus 119 runs half-hourly all night, the 05:59 is timetabled at 25
minutes from Bromley South to East Croydon.





It all depends on the point in Bromley you travel from. I would need to
walk over a mile in the wrong direction to pick up a 119 and it is too
risky. It does a grand tour of Hayes and West Wickam and finally has
great difficulty in entering Bromley at the southern end

But compared with the 367 one might think the route straightforward.

The laugh is that when they withdrew the bus service, instead of
providing any useful information, they put notices in the timetable
windows along the route saying "Your services are improving"

Transport services are planned by people in suits who drive cars, but
want to use the train service (or something that goes on rails) for
their commute to work, but use cars for weekend leisure activities. They
can't relate to anyone using public transport at weekends and take them
to be destitutes or losers with no money but infinite amounts of time,
and who deserve to be punished and humiliated.

Now try a bus service outside London (where, to be fair, many of the
passengers are indeed ....)

Now instead of making unsubstantiated rants perhaps you can answer the
questions I posed? Referring to a bus route that is long dead is of
no relevance to Tramlink where you said there were places where there
was no service on the Tramlink network.

Ranting about weekend service levels and the alleged motivations of
transport planners is not helpful. Please explain the allegations you
made about Tramlink rather than just going on a whinge about public
transport. If you live in London you are far, far better off than
many places where they're lucky to a single bus on a Sunday never mind
one at 0600!

00:20 - 07:20

The tram link was used as an excuse for cutting out 726 (and 54 but I
didn't personally use that) and in my view is very relevant.

Tramlink opened 2000, the 726 was cut back in April 2005 (according to
Wikipedia, and it must have been about then as I used it after coming
to London in late 2000).
The 726 was killed off in stages. The link between Bromley and Croydon
was cut after Tramlink opened.



Tramlink doesn't go central Bromley (it would nice if it did, but
difficult to arrange; Croydon to Bromley is one of those trips that
seems slower/more awkward than might be expected).

There is no direct bus service from Bromley to Croydon

AIUI the problem was that the 726 timings were horribly unreliable by
the time it reached Sutton, never mind Kingston, and it only ran
hourly. This made it a bit dodgy to use for getting to to the airport
and only much use for other trips if you had a lot of time on your
hands. It also stopped everywhere, so people going one stop slowed it
down even more.

The bus was originally premised on premium fare. That was abolished
leading to the difficulties in keeping to timetable. In any event that
was in my opinion never the main problem.

The major rail station is east Croydon bus the bus station is at West
Croydon. There is a bus terminal, of sorts, outside East Croydon station
bus the 726 didn't use it. Instead, it stopped in Dingwall Road. If you
know Croydon, it's not difficult to find, but for those in unfamiliar
surroundings, it was very confusing. Moreover, I wouldn't call Croydon
the safest of places and an ordinary person might feel rather vulnerable
waiting about in Dingwall Rd. The frustrated passenger would stand
outside East Croydon Station watching an empty 726 go roaring past.

Furthermore, they didn't, and don't today, haven't any information
concerning the whereabouts of buses at East Croydon. They have that
information for the trams, and for the buses at many other locations,
but not there. it makes it difficult for the passenger to make an
informed choice between tram or bus.

So assuming that the passenger could read the timetable through the
dirty timetable pane, if they arrived at 12:15 for a bus due at 12:00,
they would have no way of knowing whether they had missed it, or whether
it was running late and would appear any moment.



That enabled them to kill a bus service whilst claiming "Your services
are improving".

It did improve west of Croydon - doubled in frequency, chopped some stops.

You comments about other places are not germane to the issue.

My original point was that if they were getting some extra trams it
would be useful to extend the service. I'd be willing to put up with a
bit of overcrowding in the middle of the day.

Perhaps they should relieve overcrowding during the day, and then bring
back night services to places which have lost them altogether....

They should at least start the tram service from the time the replaced
bus service started, to give some honesty to the statement that services
are improving.

What I would really have liked to see was a train running from Orpington
via Birkbeck and Norwood Junction. Don't tell me, there is 27 chains of
missing rail.
--
Ken