On 10/01/2012 15:08, Mizter T wrote:

"peter" wrote:
Bus 84 runs from New Barnet to Potters Bar and then St Albans. It is
a long established route, dating back (literally) 100 years.
Recently, oyster cards and travelcards have been accepted between New
Barnet (which is inside Greater London) and Potters Bar (which is just
outside).

Today I boarded a southbound bus in Barnet, and found that oyster
cards and travelcards were no longer accepted on this route. I am not
personally affected, as I am sufficiently senior to use a freedom
pass, but it seems a mean and underhand trick to remove this
availability on a route which, for all practical purposes, is part of
the London bus network at its southern end. It also runs along some
roads inside London which are not served by any other route.

I searched the TfL website, but could find no mention of this change.
It is not included in their 'latest service changes' bulletin. Are any
other routes similarly affected? Is this the thin end of a wedge
leading to the fragmentation of London buses, as has happened in the
rest of the country?


The 84 is not a TfL-tendered bus service - i.e. it's not part of the
London Bus network as such. Rather it's a commercial service, run by
Metroline, on which TfL tickets are - or at least were - accepted for
journeys within Greater London.

Others will correct me, but AIUI bus services such as this used to be
run within Greater London under a regime called 'London Local Service
Agreements' (LLSA), but are now run under slightly different regime
called 'London Service Permits' (LSP) (both were/are granted by TfL).
There's a bit more info he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/businessandpartners/busoperators/1228.aspx

In the latest "London Service Permit Bulletin" available from the above
page...
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/businessandpartners/lsp_bulletin.pdf

...the Metroline 84 service features on page 20 under the heading:
"2 January 2012 - Application for a new London Service Permit to replace
a London Local Service Agreement".

So it would appears as though the service has shifted over from the old
LLSA regime to the new LSP regime for licensing purposes. The blurb does
say:
"NOTE: Operation of service transferred from LLSA to LSP with no changes
to routeings, picking up and setting down points, terminal points,
vehicles or timetable."

However, there's no mention of fares or ticketing acceptance (or the
lack thereof under the new LSP).

TfL used to produce a handy leaflet (or at least PDF) called "Beyond the
fringes" which detailed acceptance of TfL tickets on buses which ran
beyond the Greater London boundary, but they haven't done so for two or
three years now and AFAICS there's a dearth of any official information
about this now.

But no, worry not, this isn't the thin end of the wedge in the sense of
London's bus services becoming fragmented - ticket acceptance (or lack
thereof) on commercial services that run into Greater London from the
there-be-dragons territory beyond the boundary is something of an edge
issue (in both senses of the word) - meanwhile the tendered nature of
the London Bus network is not under any threat (thankfully!). Not that
it's an unimportant issue, mind - I'd think that ideally most such
services (local ones at least, not express coach services) should accept
TfL tickets for journeys wholly within Greater London.

You could always contact London Buses customer services to find out what
the score is in relation to the 84:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/contact/4417.aspx#page-link-london-buses

See www.metroline.co.uk/news-item.html?id=29 which announces this
change from 2.1.12. Holders of TfL tickets can however get a reduced
fare of £1.35 between New Barnet and Potters Bar.