On Sun, 28 Jul 2013 20:44:25 -0700 (PDT), e27002
wrote:

On Sunday, 28 July 2013 18:23:58 UTC-7, Recliner wrote:
e27002 wrote:

On Wednesday, 24 July 2013 15:51:50 UTC-7, Richard wrote:




It is hard to believe one was present then. These pictures are so

sickening; I almost changed my mind regarding the decline of western

civilization. Then I remembered, we had the wonderful years of

restoration during the Mulroney, Reagan, Thatcher John Paul II era.



I'm curious why you think western civilisation is declining? Isn't British

society freer, safer, healthier, longer-lived, less crime-afflicted, more

egalitarian, less-discriminatory, more integrated, and more secular than

ever? Regardless of their political complexion, British governments have

been pretty effective at moving us in the right direction. However, I'm not

sure what role, if any, Mulroney, Reagan or any pope played in this

progress.

One is not sure when Britain became the sum total Western Civilization.

I never said it was, but we were discussing pictures taken in London
in the 1980s, and so it was reasonable to look at how Britain's
changed in the last 30 years.

For crime see http://www.historytoday.com/victor-b...entury-britain

I know you like living in the past, but why post a link to an article
published some 25 years ago (and apparently based on data no newer
than 1984), when we're discussing how things have changed *since* the
1980s? Perhaps because more recent articles don't support your
thesis. For a more current analysis, see
http://www.economist.com/blogs/econo...st-explains-16

Then there is the decline in communities of faith, the cheapening of human life, the rise of out of wedlock births, the disproportionate influence of deviant groups, the overwhelming rise of low brow culture, pseudo-science, the decline of honor, patriotism, and loyalty. The list goes on and on. But, you no doubt see things differently.

Yes, I will regard it as a real triumph of western civilisation when
the study of religion is confined to the history syllabus. The quicker
that 'communities of faith' disappear, the better. I certainly don't
welcome the rise of pseudo-science, but it seems to be confined mainly
to the US, with the rise of pseudo-sciences like Intelligent Design.


And, as for our allies, I presume you see no advantage in the fall of our then greatest threat. Perhaps to you, Poles, East Germans, Czechs, et al do not count (They are not British after all). But, I am sure to them the Western Leadership of that period was cause for great rejoicing. Need I mention “Solidarity”.

Of course I celebrated the fall of the Soviet empire -- who wouldn't?
It's another reason to feel optimistic about the progress in western
civilisation (I just wish I'd visited more eastern European countries
just before or after the fall of the Wall, so I could better judge the
changes since then). And one consequence is that if you listen to
conversations on today's Tube trains, many are in the languages of the
countries that were once behind the iron curtain.