e27002 wrote:
On Monday, 29 July 2013 03:38:36 UTC-7, Recliner wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jul 2013 20:44:25 -0700 (PDT), e27002

wrote:



On Sunday, 28 July 2013 18:23:58 UTC-7, Recliner wrote:

e27002 wrote:



On Wednesday, 24 July 2013 15:51:50 UTC-7, Richard wrote:









It is hard to believe one was present then. These pictures are so



sickening; I almost changed my mind regarding the decline of western



civilization. Then I remembered, we had the wonderful years of



restoration during the Mulroney, Reagan, Thatcher John Paul II era.







I'm curious why you think western civilisation is declining? Isn't British



society freer, safer, healthier, longer-lived, less crime-afflicted, more



egalitarian, less-discriminatory, more integrated, and more secular than



ever? Regardless of their political complexion, British governments have



been pretty effective at moving us in the right direction. However, I'm not



sure what role, if any, Mulroney, Reagan or any pope played in this



progress.



One is not sure when Britain became the sum total Western Civilization.



I never said it was, but we were discussing pictures taken in London

in the 1980s, and so it was reasonable to look at how Britain's

changed in the last 30 years.



For crime see http://www.historytoday.com/victor-b...entury-britain



I know you like living in the past, but why post a link to an article

published some 25 years ago (and apparently based on data no newer

than 1984), when we're discussing how things have changed *since* the

1980s? Perhaps because more recent articles don't support your

thesis. For a more current analysis, see

http://www.economist.com/blogs/econo...st-explains-16
Year on year comparisons do not mean a whole lot. The long term trend is
what matters. Legislation passed now becomes effective in the future,
then its consequences become apparent much later as folks figure out how
to comply or avoid it. There is still plenty of fallout from IR35.

I don't understand how the taxation of subcontractors could affect crime
rates.


A judge appointed today will be deciding case for many, many years. A
new school teacher will influence generations of children.

The real measure of crime statistics is over 25, even 50 years.

The Economist article, which you presumably didn't read, actually tracked
changes since the early 1980s.




Then there is the decline in communities of faith, the cheapening of
human life, the rise of out of wedlock births, the disproportionate
influence of deviant groups, the overwhelming rise of low brow culture,
pseudo-science, the decline of honor, patriotism, and loyalty. The
list goes on and on. But, you no doubt see things differently.



Yes, I will regard it as a real triumph of western civilisation when

the study of religion is confined to the history syllabus. The quicker

that 'communities of faith' disappear, the better.

One can fully understand why someone who wants an "anything goes" climate
of sleaze would dislike people of conviction. How would you like to
dispose of these communities? Evangelicals could be burnt at the stake,
Jewish people packed into cattle trucks and sent to "resettlement" camps.
Perhaps you might think beheading is appropriate for Catholics.

There speaks a typical religious bigot, who thinks everyone else should be
killed. Was it ever thus. As an atheist, it's religion I want to see die
out, through better education. I don't believe in the death penalty. And I
don't think UK taxpayer-funded schools should be run by religions. They can
indoctrinate kids, if they must, at their own expense.


I certainly don't

welcome the rise of pseudo-science, but it seems to be confined mainly

to the US, with the rise of pseudo-sciences like Intelligent Design.

The statistics to support the "hockey stick" were faked in the United Kingdom.

The was no fakery involved, and global warming remains real. But
Intelligent Design does not.




And, as for our allies, I presume you see no advantage in the fall of
our then greatest threat. Perhaps to you, Poles, East Germans, Czechs,
et al do not count (They are not British after all). But, I am sure to
them the Western Leadership of that period was cause for great
rejoicing. Need I mention �Solidarity�.



Of course I celebrated the fall of the Soviet empire -- who wouldn't?

It's another reason to feel optimistic about the progress in western

civilisation (I just wish I'd visited more eastern European countries

just before or after the fall of the Wall, so I could better judge the

changes since then). And one consequence is that if you listen to

conversations on today's Tube trains, many are in the languages of the

countries that were once behind the iron curtain.

Yet you are so keen to see the same government interventionist policies
imposed within the EU. It will not be many years before Poland has had enough and leaves.

What do you know of my views on EU policies? Pray reveal all.