On 12/01/2014 07:27, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 17:46:19 -0800, Aurora wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 19:08:35 -0600,
wrote:

In article ,
(Aurora) wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 23:09:03 -0000, "NY" wrote:

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
On 11/01/2014 22:16, Robert wrote:
Heathrow wasn't in London when first built! My father worked there in
the early 50s and we lived in Bedfont. Going to London was a major
expedition involving buses to either Feltham or Hounslow West stations
and then the train.

Where was the boundary between London and other places defined to be in
those days? Was it a 1974 change when the county of Greater London was
created? When the neighbouring counties had boundaries that met close to
central London, where was the boundary of "London" deemed to be, and did
it gradually change as greenfield sites got filled in?

Greater London was formed in 1965. Prior to that there was, the
almost sane, smaller, London County Council. Prior to 1889 Middlesex
was the county at the heart of England, although only its South
Eastern part was urbanized. IIRC until 1889 the City of London was
outwith any County.

The area of the County of London was defined long before 1889. The
Metropolitan Board of Works covered the same area and was formed in 1854
(IIRC).

It didn't form the same area. Like the Metropolitan Police, it
intruded into counties surrounding London but did not replace the
local governments in those areas but took over some of their
functions. The MBW area was greatly influenced by the course of an
assortment of rivers as it was responsible for stuff that doesn't run
uphill without help.

The Metropolitan Police District (1829) and London Transport Area (1933)
were much earlier definitions of Greater London too.

They (or rather the associated legislation) defined respectively the
"metropolitan police district" and the "London Passenger Transport
Area" neither of which ever matched any local authority boundaries
until the MPD was matched to Greater London in recent years.

See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropo...olice_District and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_...ransport_Board.

Which effectively support what I've just said.

Understood, thank you for sharing.

London's government has sadly been subject to endless meddling by central
government, partly because it is also located in London.

Once again,e emphatically agree.

AFIK these 1889 and 1965 are the only times the County of London was
extended.

1965 wasn't an extension, it was the creation of a different set of
local government arrangements which wiped out two administrative
counties.

Although Greater London disappeared for a while. It is now
back as a "region" with a peculiar governance structure.

It was never a county as such. London has never had the same local
government arrangements as the rest of England.

It isn't and wasn't uniform in the rest of England.

Middlesex was certainly a normal county. AIUI, it excluded the "City
of London". The LCC was certainly called a county, although I am
aware it was granted extra powers.

Other counties weren't all equal as the result of various odd bits of
private legislation but possibly not as different as the County of
London.

The borders of the Cities and boroughs within the County were also
consolidated into their present monstrous size in 1965.

Maybe it would have been better to give back some land to surrounding
counties, decentralise into them and just have an overall authority to
deal with necessary common functions (e.g. transport) but prevent
detrimental centralisation either in the centre or in the surrounding
counties ?

Prior to that
were the human scaled boroughs such as Paddington and St Marylebone.
In those days democracy was closer to the electorate.

Not everywhere. Wandsworth was divided, part going to Lambeth, with
Battersea added. the resulting entity was much the same size as the old
Metropolitan Borough.

Thank you, that was informative.

The inner boroughs had lost a lot of population due to the war and post-war
reconstruction. In 1918 modern day Tower Hamlets had seven MPs. Now it has
one and a half.

The old boroughs meant something. Perhaps as London's population
increases we will see a return to more localized boroughs.

Bushey Station is not in Bushey, which is not in Watford, but Oxhey,
which is.

--
Myth, after all, is what we believe naturally. History is what we must
painfully learn and struggle to remember. -Albert Goldman