"tim....." wrote:
"Recliner" wrote in message
...
"tim....." wrote:
"Recliner" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Thu, 2 Apr 2015 15:29:44 +0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Mizter T wrote:
But as both Amersham and Watford are well outside London, it's hard to see
why TfL and the London mayor would want to subsidise such services. Would

If they're served by the tube then there's no reason why TfL
shouldn't cough up
if the route is viable since they're getting ticket revenue from non london
residents. Otherwise put the buffers at Harrow and let chiltern take over the
rest of the line.

I don't think the fare revenue from an Amersham Watford Junction shuttle
would even cover the operating costs, let alone the capital cost of a
couple of additional S8 trains.

That's a strange meaning of "Operating costs" that doesn't include the
costs of the stock

Why is it strange? It's completely normal.

Is it?

It wouldn't be if the item being operated was a car (taxi) or a bus.

Why not? You'd have the fixed cost to lease the asset, and the variable
operating costs to run it. That's exactly how trucks, buses, trains or
planes are accounted for. Some planes and aircraft engines are charged on a
power-by-the-hour basis, which includes all those costs in on single
payment, which is how taxi fares work.

Operating costs and capital costs are usually quoted separately for an
asset.

But it's a depreciating asset. It's not the same as the track. It's
good for 30 years use at which time you throw it away.

The lease cost takes that into account. It includes the interest on the
original loan, and the depreciation.


So, maintaining, cleaning and powering the stock are operating
costs, but the lease costs represent a repayment of the capital to buy the
trains. The latter is essentially fixed, even if the trains do no mileage.

I thought that was taking into account when deciding how many you needed to buy

Sure, but you don't ignore it. My suggestion was that the fare revenue for
an Amersham Watford Junction shuttle wouldn't even cover the variable
operating costs, let alone the lease costs for two S8 trains. So, even if
there were spare S8 trains available for free (there aren't), the service
probably still wouldn't cover its costs.