On 13/06/2015 14:04, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Sat, 13 Jun 2015 12:42:25 +0100, Neil Williams
wrote:

On 2015-06-13 00:14:56 +0000, Paul Corfield said:

God knows what the next Mayor does with them.

I know you won't like it, but I'm hoping for "fits new aircon or
opening windows and keeps them".

There is no aircon on them. TfL have specifically ruled it out
because the extra weight and power requirement would reduce vehicle
carrying capacity and increase fuel consumption. This was stated in
the TfL Board Paper requesting approval to buy 200 extra vehicles.

I think the public don't realise that air con isn't fitted. It's
merely air cooling and it doesn't work because of its design and the
heat thrown out by the engine on the buses. I think the weight of
opening windows plus the squashed upper deck window design mitigates
against the use of opening windows. There have been long term rumours
about opening windows but I'd have expected to see them before now to
be honest - even as a trial on one vehicle. Plenty of opportunity for
TfL and Wrightbus to do that.

On hot days I think people must realise they don't have aircon fitted!
Either that or they think the aircon is faulty or broken... but such an
illusion wouldn't hold up to repeated experiences on board.


On the Mk2 NB4Ls (the extra 200) TfL have said they will try to
improve the ventilation and heat insulation in the vehicles.
Unfortunately that doesn't provide a fix for the 608 preceeding
vehicles!

While the platform is a gimmick and I would expect them to be OPO in due course,

The rear open platform is effectively being abolished in the Mk2
design although there will still be three doors. The rearmost door
will be a sliding plug type door rather than one that swings inside.
TfL have said there will be no crew operation on the extra buses and
route 73 is being converted now but is remaining OPO despite being
vastly busier than the 10 and 390 which are part crew. I agree that
TfL will scrap crew operation as quickly as possible post May 2016
*unless* the new Mayor requires its retention. I expect some people
will moan about that and making people redundant is never good but
better to do it early in a new term than leave it.

Thanks Paul, I'm quite out of date in that case - I hadn't realised
there was to be a new Mk2 design with a different design at the back.

Blimey Boris is an idiot. All that chat from him about bringing back an
open platform.


Apparently we will see the Mk2 design fairly soon because the first
batch is in build.

I don't think they are bad
in and of themselves, and I don't (except through the heat) have
sickness issues on them and would be very interested to know what it is
(while I guess you don't know yourself) specifically that causes this.

Heat, noise from the engine and never ending bleeps and announcements,
gloom, lack of ventilation, poor seating.

I don't agree with the poor seating criticism, not the "never ending
bleeps and announcements" - but it's definitely gloomier. Just thinking
if the old RMs had an element of that about them too upstairs, not sure.


I also think the identity of having a distinct London bus body has a
strong aspect to it, though this was sort-of achieved a while ago when
almost everything was the old-style Wright Gemini which is a very
distinctive body (particularly the front) which became somewhat
synonymous with London.

I don't really buy that to be honest. I'd rather the bus companies
were allowed to keep investing via the route contracting process in
modern vehicles. The NB4L is ludicrously heavy compared to the very
latest buses coming on the market which are designed for excellent
fuel economy and decent comfort / carrying capacity and which can have
opening windows!


I do recall someone describing it as "the bus for people who don't take
buses", in that in part it's all about the exterior image.

There were some who wanted this new bus to be a disaster because it was
a Boris project. I'm definitely not one of them - not least because
people have to travel on them for many years into the future, so I
wanted them to work. I'm testing my willingness to give it the benefit
of the doubt to the limit.