"Dave" wrote in message
...
Nick writes
Would you prefer they referred to you as 'Dear resident of the
area formerly part of the county of Middlesex, Kent, Surrey,
Hertfordshire or Essex'?

Quite frankly, that would be better.

Quite frankly that's just ridiculous and merely serves to undermine the
rest of your argument.

I still thiink it would be better whether you think it's ridiculous or
not.

If you did a quick straw poll of people in the street and asked them if
they thought it was better - I reckon they'd all think you were a
nutter.

Only a nutter would suggest such a straw poll on this in the first place :-)
However, I think there would be some sympathy for it actually. I agree it
sounds a bit silly. I didn't say it was sensible - just that it would be
better.

My point was that it was a "reluctanct" London borough judging by the
councillors I've spoken to. Note that Bexley dropped the "London
Borough" part of its name for most purposes some years ago, and now
goes under the alias of Bexley Council.

But my point was that it wasn't a 'new' thing. Not GLA propaganda as
you would believe.

You may well be right that it's not a "new" thing.

I am sure the vast majority of people in Bexley and Bromley would not
describe themselves as living "in London". All the real Londonders I
have
ever met and worked with would never regard such "outlying" areas as
Bexley
as part of London either.

And there are many residents living in the Boroughs of Bexley and
Bromley who do not regard themselves as living in Bexley or Bromley;
but
living in places such as Orpington or Chislehurst. They may have
objected as strongly to being forced to become 'Bexley' or 'Bromley'
residents as you do to being addressed as a Londoner.

Yes, they might've done. So? Let local areas be called what local
people
want them to be.

There has been no need to put a county as part of your address for
many
years. So the correct postal address would end 'Bromley BR1...' or
'Bexley BR5...'.

Correct, but the postal county is still used extensively and I would
guess well over 75% of all mail delivered in the UK still has a
county field. So lots of people will see Bexley and Bromley
addressed as Kent (and NEVER London, which is not acceptable as part
of the address).

Of course even when used, postal counties bore no relation to
geographical or political counties. Addresses in Cockfosters would have
a postal town of Barnet, Herts. Despite Cockfosters being in the
London
Borough of Enfield and (geographically) in the County of Middlesex.

They bore a very strong relationship with almost all counties at one
point.
You've merely picked out some of the (relatively few) that didn't match
up.
Most did!

Postal counties *never* matched geographical counties. The postal
county derived from your postal town - if this was in a different county
(as it frequently was) then you had the wrong postal county.

You mean they never *exactly* 100% matched geographical counties. They were
probably 95% or so correct. But whether that helps or not I don't know.

People living in the London postal districts had London as part of their
address ever since the establishment of those districts (which mutt be
more than a 100 years). So people living in the Borough of Wood Green
in the County of Middlesex would have had their postal address as
London.

So it was a lot more widespread than you think, certainly more than just
a few. The organisation of postal districts/towns/counties was merely
for the operating convenience of the postal service - and for nothing
else.

I am well aware of all that and agree that the organisation was primarily
for the convenience of the postal service.

Not an acceptable characteristic of a "Londoner" I know.

The thing is. I actually have some sympathy with some of what you say,
but when you make a stupid comment like this (which would be offensive
to many people), then it undermines the rest of your argument.

"I think you're being *far* too sensitive."

It was just a little sarcasm, Dave.

I think you are aiming at the wrong target. You're blaming the GLA for
a process which was set in stone in 1965. A process that started long
before that.

I would agree that the GLA is not the only target. I am very happy with a
lot of what the GLA has achieved and I am somewhat loathe to blame them for
anything actually, but I don't feel they are helping the "local identity"
situation at all.

I too think its sad that local identity is being lost, but whereas you
think of it in Bexley vs London, I think of it in smaller terms. I live
in the London Borough of Haringey, I don't know of anyone who, when
asked, would say they live in Haringey - they would say they live in
places such as Tottenham, Wood Green, Crouch End, Muswell Hill, or even
Harringay - but never Haringey. However, if asked if they came from
Middlesex or London, then I reckon most would say London.

Why? Nothing to do with the GLA, just that over the past 100 years, the
area has become more Londonised (for the various reasons outlined
previously).

Agreed.

The old GLC slogan was 'Working for London' and used for many years.
It
appeared on everything that they made or did. I really don't see what
the difference is today with the GLA.

The GLC never referred to Bexley as "south east London" did they.

I don't know. But I can't think of any other term they would have used
for it

From the documentation I've seen they always quoted "Bexley, Kent" and
"Bromley, Kent".

The GLA do, and intentionally so.

Indeed. Bexley is in the south-east corner of Greater London. It seems
eminently sensible to refer to it as south east London.

It might, superficially, seem sensible to call it "south east Greater
London" but I don't think "south east London" is appropriate when a
well-establised area of London SE postcodes is commonly held to be "south
east London" already.

Out of interest, it's amusing to note the Yellow pages directory for "London
south east" is likely to be split into two. One directory will probably be
called "south east London" and cover SE postcodes, the other will be called
"Bromley and Bexley" and cover most DA & BR postcodes (well, largely
boroughs of Dartford, Bexley and Bromley I think).

To me, it makes sense to keep the meaning of "south east London" to be the
London SE postcode district. Nice and simple. Refer to Bexley as Bexely and
Bromley as Bromley, seems simple too.

Let's look at some of the services provided in your area: buses will
have been 'London Transport' since 1933 (and in those days covered a
far
wider area than they do today); the local TV news programmes are called
BBC London News and London Tonight; the local evening paper is the
Evening Standard, whose website is called www.thisislondon.co.uk; fires
are extinguished by the London Fire Brigade; crimes investigated by the
Metropolitan Police; even before WWII, water supplied by the
Metropolitan Water Board; accident victims are tended to by the London
Ambulance Service.

I can quote you an equally long list of services provided by Kent-based
agencies and bodies, but so what?

But you didn't. Perhaps you couldn't think of any. I'd be surprised if
there were any that were as 'visible' as the ones I listed.

Perhaps I couldn't be bothered to type out a long list of them. But your
point about London TV and radio coverage and Evening Standard availability
would appear to indicate places like Sevenoaks are in GL. It isn't (yet).

Bexley is in the editorial and distribution area for "Kent on Sunday" - the
county-wide freebie paper. We are in the editorial area for BBC Radio Kent.
We are covered by Invicta FM, the major Kent ILR. Our borough is part of
the NW Kent Countryside Project, a coalition with Dartford, Sevenoaks,
Gravesend and Kent County councils and the Environment Agency. We have
featured in stories and pieces on ITV1 Meridian, the ITV1 for most of mid
and east Kent even. The eastern half of the borough has Dartford 01322
telephone numbers (Crayford and Erith exchanges), not London 020. We have
lots of white horses on old signs and railings all over the place :-) We
write Kent on our envelopes. We are covered by the Kent association for the
Blind, not the the London association. The Bexley branch of Camra is part
of Kent Camra, not London. For all sporting purposes, we are part of Kent
(Kent County FA, Kent Country Cricket). There are more references to
"Bexley, Kent" on Google than there are to "Bexley, Greater London" or
"Bexley, London". We have the same TOC as Kent, Connex (for now, anyway).
We are closer to Bluewater than Oxford Street. Etc.

For 15 years, there was no level of government for the whole of Greater
London. Now there is, so you are bound to see more London-wide
material.

Agreed.

What I find very puzzling is why you seem to single out the GLA as some
sort of ethnic cleansing body determined to eradicate all signs of
Kentishness. That's not only bizarre but bordering on the paranoid.

I don't mean to single-out the GLA who I think generally do a good job. The
London media is equally if not more to blame on the branding issue. But
there remains a strong and noticeable trend to sever Bexley from the Kent
area. I would like to be wrong!

Nick