On 22/05/2019 10:01, Roland Perry wrote:

on Wed, 22 May 2019, JNugent remarked: On 21/05/2019 18:01, Roland Perry wrote: JNugent
remarked:
With Uber (which I have used only twice, neither time in the UK),
theÂ* charges are payable to Uber. If UK VAT applies to their
chargesÂ* in theÂ* UK, it will have to be paid to Uber, presumably
at 20% ofÂ* the charge.Â* How Uber divide up the charge (ex-VAT) is
up to them,Â* but all of itÂ* will be liable to the tax if any of it
is.

Â*The theory is that with taxi drivers below the £85k VAT limit,
theyÂ* can't charge their riders VAT.

That's taxi-driving for you.

With Uber, the charge is not paid to the driver (and the drivers are
not taxi-drivers just as the cars are not taxis). The rider's sole
contract is with Uber itself.

Â*Unless Uber is an agency and you are booking with the successfully
bidding driver, and as part of the agency agreement Uber pass your
moneyÂ* to them. Separately charging the driver a commission.

You have more or less described what we might call a "traditional
minicab" (traditional since 1960, that is). The driver gets paid by
the passenger and the driver pays a commission or radio circuit rent
to the operator. The operator's turnover consists of the aggregate of
the radio rent commissions paid to them by the drivers.
But it definitely isn't what happens with Uber. There, the passenger
pays Uber, and Uber pays a part of the charge to the driver.

Alternatively, the Uber pays [on paper] the whole charge to the driver,
but registers the fact that a commission is due, and at the end of the
day (or week or month or whatever their accounting period is) deducts
one from the other before handing over the *cash*.

Is that what happens?

My impression is that Uber's accounting model is open and available and
matches what I suggested. All of the turnover, irepective of how it is
subsequently disbursed to the accounts of drivers or to any other
recipient, is Uber's turnover.

It's 180 degrees the other way round from the Welbeck Minicab model.

[The famous pioneer "minicab" firm which operated fleet and owner-driven
cars, but in whose business model, the drivers were paid in cash by the
passengers.]

*All* of the money is therefore part of Uber's turnover. And that's
before a penny of it reaches the driver, the driver merely being one
of Uber's overheads.

As this is a railway group, is the turnover of a booking site like
Trainline the whole of the fares they sell, or just the what? 9%
commission they get paid.

Uber do not get paid a commission of any percentage whatsoever. They pay
their drivers a commission / proportion / share of the turnover.

The only money the driver receives is from Uber. Even a tip if the
passenger decides to add one to Uber's charges.