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tim...[_2_] · October 22nd 20, 02:46 PM posted to uk.transport.london

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:

"Recliner" wrote in message
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tim... wrote:

"Recliner" wrote in message
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tim... wrote:

"Recliner" wrote in message
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Robin wrote:
On 19/10/2020 10:04, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 09:22:21 +0100
Robin wrote:
On 19/10/2020 08:37, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 10:23:28 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 23:01:02
on
Fri,
16
Oct 2020, Ian Jackson
remarked:
People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal
employment with lives that mean that they have to have a
car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody
ridiculous

If the local councillors suggested this they would be out on
their
ears at the next election

It's only because Boris is a Tory, and most of the affected
LAs
are
Labour/LibDem run that he has a hope of getting away with
this
politically

but it's still a bag of nonsense socially.

It's nothing to do with congestion, but simply a potential
way
to
raise a poll-tax the pay for TfL's huge deficit.

After the N/S Circular, how long before the M25?

Some of the media is speculating already.

If Khan had a working pair of ******** he'd have called Boris'
bluff
over
this and said "Fine, the tube and bus will stop on [date] and
londons
economy will come to a halt along with the substantial part of
GDP
it
generates. Enjoy.". But of course he hasn't and didn't.

One problem with that may be that the idea came from the Mayor's
side:

Why was he pushing back against it then? From what I read in The
Times
the
other day it was Number 10 and the DtT pushing on moving the LEZ
outwards as
a condition for the extra money.

The only sources I saw cited were the Mayor and his colleagues.

Please show it. Every source I can find says the exact opposite.

really, I can't find that

all I can find is Khan claiming that the DfT have told him to do this

Indeed. And now apparently the government is threatening to seize
control
of TfL if Khan resists their demands:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/sadiq-khan-condemns-government-tfl-funding-plan-a4572368.html

Sadiq Khan has accused the Government of trying to “punish” Londoners
with
a “triple whammy” of price hikes as part of a financial support plan
for
TfL.

The capital’s mayor called for the “draconian” proposals, which
include
a
larger congestion charge zone and higher Tube and bus fares, to be
reconsidered.

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps proposed the measures, for which in
return
TfL would receive six months of rescue funding lasting from now until
Match
next year. He also suggested that the Government would seize control
of
TfL
if the measures were not followed.

But Mr Khan refused to accept the proposal outlined in a letter from
Mr
Shapps, telling ministers that it was “completely unacceptable,” and
“singles out Londoners for punishment.”

He: "I simply cannot accept this Government plan, which would hit
Londoners
with a triple whammy of higher costs at a time when so many people are
already facing hardship.

"The Government should be supporting Londoners through this difficult
time
– not making ill-advised and draconian proposals which will choke off
our
economic recovery.”

Ministers want to extend the £15 Congestion Charge Zone to the North
and
South circular roads in 12 months' time. This would see the zone
expanded
to cover approximately four million more Londoners.

The Government also wants to increase TfL fares and is “doubling down”
on
their demand to remove free travel for under-18s, City Hall said.

apart from it being (from a socialist POV), "The right thing to do",
what
is
the logical justification for 16-18s travelling free?

I can see that giving over 60s a pass encourages them to give up their
car
(as it has done for me), and thus reduces the potential extra
congestion
my
keeping it would create.

ditto allowing parents to take, under 12s for example with them for
free

but that can't be the justification for 16-18 YO, which simply seems to
be
based upon the theory that they are unwaged (not all are). A basis of
assigning free travel that almost nowhere else (in the world) uses.

It looks like Khan is winning this war of words; the floundering former
mayor of London is being outsmarted by current mayors:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/10/21/boris-johnson-picking-fights-local-leaders-losing/

not helped by, reported yesterday:

Government spokesperson saying "we didn't suggest that the CC zone should
be
extended"

to elicit the response of AN Other holding up letter from Minster saying
exactly that

I can only repeat my OP, that this is the most socially unfair idea for
fund
raising that any politician has ever suggested

What do you think of the other government demand, that council tax be
raised to partially cover the TfL black hole?

at least it's fair to all Londoners

It would have to be a
non-trivial amount per household to make much of a difference, let's say
£100 in band D.

100 pound for all, is tiny in comparison to a 5 grand CC charge levied on a
minority

Personally, I don't accept the premise that PT has to be self funding, but
we are where we are on that one