On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:30:32 +0100, Annabel Smyth
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 24 Oct 2004:

Since when did the definition of an orbital route mean it had to avoid
Zone 1? Why is it somehow less effective if it does touch Zone 1. I
thought the East London line was supposed to opening up job
opportunities to people - doesn't Bishopsgate count as an area with
jobs?

Basically, if the route did not go through zone 1, it would cost a lot
less! If the orbital route is marginally less convenient but cheaper,
you are a lot more likely to use it than if it is marginally less
convenient but costs the same.

Surely people take the route that is most convenient and fastest when it
comes to rail or tube travel? Do people really go through such journey
contortions in order to save a few pence?

In the case of ELLX there is a balancing act to be achieved between
costs and revenue and ridership. If the line is genuinely useful - and I
believe it certainly is - then putting some stations in zone 1 or
possibly on the boundary of Z1 and 2 together with Whitechapel will not
make a huge difference to ridership but it would certainly do something
for revenue. I don't see the argument that says the line has to be
wholly in Zone 2 for it to be a success or to fall into a category
called "orbital". Surely part of the attraction will be frequent service
and ease of interchange avoiding the normal Zone 1 termini like Victoria
which will make it attractive for cross London trips?

As it seems from the latest TfL business plan info that it will still be
a National Rail service (franchise) but specified by TfL then I think on
balance that we will get the DLR style fudge of stations on fare
boundaries but with the LUL fare scale north of the New Cross stations
and the hybrid Southern / TfL through ticket scale for trips to the
south.

If the boundary did not curve then Shoreditch
would most certainly be in Zone 1 - after all the nearest bus stops on
Bethnal Green Road for routes 8 and 388 most certainly are.

But it costs the same on the bus whatever zone you're in, so that makes
no difference.

The original poster used the examples of fare zone boundaries. I simply
checked the map he referenced and you can see that the boundary is very
clearly fudged in the case of Shoreditch to place it in Zone 2.

Just to be pedantic I think it should be remembered that bus zones are
simply not used *at the moment* for pricing bus fares and passes. No one
has gone round and removed the zone labels from bus stops and I would
not be remotely surprised to see some form of bus zone be re-introduced
if the financial situation warranted it. Flat fares will get to the
level where they become so high that they discourage short journeys thus
negating part of the reason for having a bus system. At that stage the
fares structure will change - after all we have been here before when
fares used to 30p flat fare and it only took 3 fares revisions to get to
a graduated structure.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!