"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In article m, Martin
Underwood writes
It seems to me that this advice is rather naive, because it assumes
that
the only impediment to the "car in front of you that's also waiting to
turn right" is the flow of oncoming traffic - which will eventually
stop. What if the real reason that the car in front can't turn right is
a traffic queue on the road to the right. In that event, both of you
will be "marooned" in the middle of the box junction when the lights
change :-(

Isn't the situation that you describe covered by the "are only stopped
from
doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right"
clause - the implication being that you must not enter the box if
anything
*else* prevents you completing the turn - for example the fact that
traffic
on your right is backed-up as far as the box.

I think you need a crystal ball. Imagine you are the first of the right-
turning cars. The road to the right is clear (at least one space to turn
into). But the oncoming traffic prevents you turning. And then an
oncoming car turns left, and fills up that space you used to have. Are
you suddenly a criminal? The same for the next car back, observing (if
indeed the sight-line is unobstructed) that there are spaces for two
cars in the road to the right, initially.

You've misunderstood what I said. As I see it, there are two situtations:

1. If you're turning right and traffic on the road that you want to take is
backed-up as far as the box junction, you do not enter the box junction,
even though you are wanting to turn right - because you are not *only*
prevented from turning by the oncoming traffic but *also* because your exit
from the box junction isn't clear.

2. If the exit on the right is clear but the only reason you can't turn
right is because of oncoming traffic, you may enter but must remain in the
middle of the road and not go as far as the exit from the box because this
would block oncoming traffic. It is usually only practicable for one vehicle
to sit in the centre of the road - any cars behind the "lead car" will form
a barrier which will block oncoming traffic that wants to turn to its right.

In case 1, when your exit becomes clear you enter the box junction and wait
in the centre - unless there's no oncoming traffic in which case you
complete the turn.

In case 2, when there's no more oncoming traffic you complete the turn.

In either case, an oncoming, left-turning car may "steal" your space between
the time that you start to move and the time when you would complete the
turn and leave the box junction. In this case you will be stranded on the
box junction, probably just before its exit, blocking oncoming traffic.

In all cases, I'm using "oncoming" to mean traffic that's going in the
opposite direction to your original direction before turning right.