On Thu, 26 May 2005, Rupert Candy wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

Is this abstract concept of "proper trains" to do with higher capacity?

Yes.

Tom - by 'heavy rail', what do you have in mind

Trains bigger than light rail - for example, the tube or mainline
railways.

something like the JLE, or 'heavy rail' as we understand it in South
London (widely-spaced and unpleasant stations, no more than 4 tph,
inappropriately designed trains for inner-suburban services, poor
penetration of zone 1 beyond a few peripheral termini)?

Less like that!

Sorry for not making myself clearer. I was thinking of things like the
tube, or WAGN services from Chingford, or Crossrail.

What's this about widely-spaced stations in the south, though? From
looking at maps, i get the general impression that spacings are comparable
to those on north London tube lines at equivalent distances out from town.

It strikes me that the reason the DLR has proved popular with the huge
numbers of people moving to Docklands is because it's perceived (rightly
or wrongly) as a 'pretend Tube' - something which that area of London
was previously notably lacking. (Even if it doesn't get any further into
Central London than your average suburban rail service.)

I think that's the same reason people are getting so excited about the
ELLX [1] - because it's perceived as 'something different' from the
despised heavy rail services we already have.

True. I'd never thought of it like that. To be fair, it does also have
much better frequencies, which makes a huge difference in the way you can
use the service. I guess the southern reaches of the ELL won't get a great
frequency, though.

You only have to compare the DLR and NR stations at (say) Deptford and
Deptford Bridge to see which of the two presents more of a modern, safe,
clean rapid transit-type image. Of course that's not entirely the fault
of the railway - its stations are 80-100 years older than those of the
DLR (though that's no excuse for the lamentable state of most
inner-suburban stations compared to their Tube equivalents).

True. The DLR does have the advantage of being very modern, but the
neglect of suburban NR stations is awful. Roll on London Rail!

[1] well, that and a chronic misunderstanding of what it will actually
involve - I still giggle every time I see a "TUBE COMING TO BROMLEY!"
headline on a local paper...

I get the same with "TUBE COMING TO DALSTON!" headlines.

tom

--
Punk's not sexual, it's just aggression.