"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 12:24:23 GMT, "Gareth Packer"
wrote:

On the second subject though, the Piccadilly line is getting new
2009-Stock
tube trains in (funnily enough) 2009, which will be based on the 92-Stock
of
the Central Line, and the 95/96 Stock of the Northern and Jubilee Lines,
so
I wouldnt have thought that much more work by way of refurbishments will
be
undertaken on the 72-Stock Trains... could be wrong, since they are also
due
on the Victoria Lines around the same time, the only line with outdated
trains I believe will be the Bakerloo line, which is not due new stock
until
2019...

I think you know more than we at LU or even Tube Lines do. The train
design is not finalised and new trains are not required until 2012 at
the earliest with upgrade completion due in 2015 if memory serves. It
would be foolish to purchase a design of train that will be 15 years old
for the Piccadilly Line upgrade. And performance of the current Northern
Line trains is dire so it would be doubly stupid - Tube Lines will want
something that it is very reliable so that their risk under PPP is
minimised.

I'm sure Alstom would be delighted to know they have already won a yet
to be tendered contract as would the EU as this would be a breach of
procurement law. Not sure how Bombardier would feel about the IPR of
the Central Line trains being "stolen" to inform the design of the
Piccadilly Line trains.

Oh and Piccadilly Line stock is 1973 stock and it has just had a whole
package of improvements made to it to improve reliability and all of the
seat covers are being replaced by Tube Lines. As the Picc is generally
very reliable on the Tube Lines managed sections it is pretty clear that
spending money to deal with the worst aspects of unreliability has been
worth it.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!



I have replied with a couple of pictures before i read this, so it blurbs on
about the trains, whether they will or wont exist. I am interested to know
how much is true, however, so here is what I read. Would be interested in
any comments?

***


LONDON UNDERGROUND MAJOR REGENERATION SCHEME, UNITED KINGDOM
London has one of the largest metro systems in the world, carrying almost
one billion passengers a year. Although much of the 'Tube' was built by
private enterprise in the late 19th and early 20th Century, for the last
half-century it has been in public ownership, and governments of all
complexions have been guilty of starving London Underground (LUL) of
funding.

When the Labour Government came to power in 1997, it chose a Public Private
Partnership (PPP), under which private companies would help to finance
regeneration in return for lengthy maintenance/management contracts and
guaranteed returns. The once autonomous London Underground is now split into
four organisations - two infrastructure companies (Infracos) and Transport
for London. The Infracos are responsible for the maintenance and management
of infrastructure (track, tunnels, stations and structures) and trains.

TUBE INFRASTRUCTURE
Around £16 billion investment has been promised by the Government and the
two Infraco consortia over the next 30 years: £4 billion from the private
sector, £5 billion from farebox and retail revenues and £7 billion from the
taxpayer. Early priorities are to improve reliability and cut delays. One
consortium, Tube Lines, is putting all its contracts out to open tender, for
which the three shareholders will be able to bid against other companies.

Improvements to stations include replacement or refurbished lifts and
escalators, regular 'deep cleans' and a complete rebuild of Wembley Park
station to serve the new national sports stadium.

The other consortium, Metronet, is carrying out much of the work itself and
is funded in a very different way, with investment from the five partners,
European and other banks, a bond issue, government grants and farebox
revenue.

Included in this investment are new signalling systems for the Victoria and
sub-surface lines, seven extra trains and improvements in service levels and
journey times on Victoria Line. Track, points and crossings will be renewed,
along with a comprehensive upgrade of all civil assets in the first 15
years, including 4,800 bridges, 1,600 structures and buildings, 130km of
tunnels, 155km of embankments, 225km track drainage and 150 stations.

LONDON UNDERGROUND ROLLING STOCK
One of Tube Lines' earliest decisions was a £160 million order for signal
upgrades to increase capacity and extra Jubilee Line cars to expand the
fleet from the current 59 six-car trains to 63 seven-car sets. The vehicles
will be similar to those already in service on the Jubilee Line, built by
Alstom in 1997-99. However, closure of the manufacturing plant at Washwood
Heath in Birmingham means they will have to be built outside the UK.

The major part of the £3.4 billion contract awarded to Bombardier in April
2003 covers the supply of 1,738 Metro cars for the sub-surface and Victoria
lines between 2008-15, all of which will be built at Derby.

In total, 47 eight-car Movia 248 trains (part of the Bombardier Movia Metro
family) will be built for the deep-tube Victoria Line with two
pre-production prototypes arriving in 2006. Once the design is accepted, one
train will roll off the assembly line every 15 days until August 2012. The
Bakerloo Line will have to wait until 2019 for new trains.

For the larger loading gauge Sub-Surface Lines (SSL), 190 Movia 237 trains
will replace older stock on the Metropolitan, District, Circle and
Hammersmith & City lines. Two prototypes on the 'Met' will have to run
40,000km - both empty and in traffic - to ensure they are fit for purpose.
Bombardier's innovative bolted assembly process will be used to ensure rapid
construction.

For the first time, all sub-surface trains will be to the same design apart
from train length to bring economies of scale on spares and maintenance, and
will be the first on LUL to feature inter-connecting full-width gangways,
creating more space and increased security for passengers.

Improved acceleration and braking will shorten journey times and allow a
planned increase in frequency on the Victoria Line from 28 trains per hour
to 33. In the meantime, 75 six-car District Line trains, the last of
existing stock to be replaced, are being refurbished.

LUL SIGNALLING AND COMMUNICATIONS
Much of LUL's signalling is old and unreliable and the Infracos have pledged
to upgrade all equipment across the system.

Westinghouse has been named as Metronet's sub-contractor for the signalling
side of the contracts, worth around £850 million. It will install new train
control systems on Metronet lines to improve safety and reduce headways,
although the new system will not be 'moving block'. Around 75% of LUL
control equipment is Westinghouse and the company has been a supplier to the
Underground for over 50 years. For this reason it was the preferred choice
for Metronet and Bombardier.

PPP envisages a 15% increase in capacity over the next 30 years, but this
looks likely to be inadequate for the growth anticipated.

THE FUTURE
By 2010, Tube Lines should have upgraded all 24 stations on the Jubilee
Line, replaced over 16km of track and repaired 5km of drainage.

By the same date the Northern Line should have had 40 stations upgraded,
delays cut, 24km of new track and over 6km of drainage replaced. A year
later a new signalling system should improve journey times by 18%, with
real-time train running information on stations and trains.

Further into the future, new signalling is planned system for the Piccadilly
Line to improve journey times by a fifth, with 93 new trains.



***



Thanks

Gareth