On Sat, 19 Nov 2005, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 23:17:51
on Fri, 18 Nov 2005, Tom Anderson remarked:

I don't care what people do on trains/busses/in public as long as it
doesn't affect other people. As soon as that happens, the perpetrator
has over-stepped the mark, and should stop.

So if someone insists on silence, and that affects someone who has an
important phone call to make...

Get up, walk to the vestibule, and make your call from there. This is not
rocket science.

We then have the situation that what one person does (insist on quiet)
affects other people (who have to move to the vestibule).

I'm intrigued that you choose to say 'one person' for the party wanting
quiet, and 'people' for the party wanting to make calls. In my experience,
it's the number of people making phone calls is ususally much smaller than
the number of people forced to listen to them.

But yes, you're right, that is essentially exactly what's happening. I
would have phrased it in terms of rights, myself - one person's right to
make a phone call against everyone else's right not to be disturbed - but
it comes out the same way, which is that the needs of the many outweigh
the needs of the few - or the one.

It's a poor choice in something like an HST because the vestibules are
very noisy,

That is true, i have to admit.

and impossible in most modern EMU/DMU because they don't have vestibules
in the sense you probably mean.

There's always, i think, some area by the doors which, even though it's
not completely separated from the seating, is somewhat acoustically
separated, by distance and usually by perspex screens.

And there are issues related to leaving ones seat (with or without
possessions left behind) and if the train is full and standing, moving
around it may not be an option.

In these situations, out of simple common courtesy to your fellow
passengers, you should refrain from making phone calls. If you absolutely
must make phone calls, don't take a train.

tom

--
I do not think we will have to wait for very long.