Tim Fenton wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Graffiti scum should be birched, hard. That's what they do in
Singapore, and it does work, remember all the hue and cry a few years
ago when they were going to birch an American boy who thought he was
above their laws? They have very little anti-social behaviour, simply
because they punish those who try it, in a harsh, painful, way. It's
quick, cheap, and doesn't cause any significant lasting damage.

Fine. I look forward to your spending some time out there. Once you've
been
found in the wrong part of Singapore at the wrong time, been the victim
of
mistaken identity, or otherwise found to have transgressed, and have had
the
crap officially and ritually beaten out of you, by all means come back
and
tell us how wonderful it was.

Well, if I was found with an album of graffiti images and dozens of
spray cans in my home and claimed "mistaken identity" (as someone I
once prosecuted was - and acquitted!), and had the crap beaten out of
me, I don't expect I'd get much sympathy.

That's the ticket, change the goalposts and up the ante.

Some societies are prepared to tolerate a
regime like that in Singapore - the UK wouldn't.

Why not?

Societies' regimes work in their respective real worlds. If you were
prepared to expand the police force several fold and give them military
backup, perhaps you could make such a regime work in the UK.

We used to have as harsh a penal code (if not harsher) than
that in Singapore and it was not only "tolerated" but an example to the
World.

Bull****.

From where do you think Singapore took its example?

It reflects its own society.

Noticeable that the example of how wonderful harsh punishment can be is
not
Saudi Arabia, where, despite a regime which includes public execution,
the
crime rate is far worse than in the UK.

What evidence do you have that wanton vandalism and hooliganism by
youths (the crimes we are dealing with in this thread) is worse in
Saudi Arabia?

Ah, naughty Tim can't discuss anything other than what you want him to.
Perhaps there will be wife beating questions next. But on a serious note,
crime rates are worse in Saudi than in the UK. Worse to the extent that
foreign nationals can't roam the streets freely - which suggests that the
local crims are armed with something more serious than spray paint.

I've never been to jail, so whether they are "cushy" I don't know. But
overall, Brian's statement has much to commend it. Perhaps you'd like to
tell us which rights should be denied to your fellow human beings?

Here's a list of "rights" I'd happily deny to my fellow human beings:-

The right to make others' lives a misery
The right to cost the State and private companies millions of Pounds in
clearing up the mess made
The right to vandalise any property, public or private

Rest of tiresome drivel snipped

Committing a crime isn't a right. OTOH subjecting alleged criminals to due
process, while treating them as fellow human beings, shows a society that is
above mob rule and is civilised. And before we get the "yah boo softie"
crowd kicking off, being civilised doesn't mean accepting the abuse of
others' property. Which I do not.

--
Tim

Fly Monarch Airlines - feed that paranoia

Tim, how many hours of your life have you spent in a Youth Court?

I have recently been appointed Prosecution Counsel for 3 months to the
Inner London Youth Courts and, amongst my friends and colleagues (who
both prosecute and defend, as I did until recently, and will do again
after November) and there is virtual unanimity amongst us on the
complete and utter breakdown of the youth justice system. It's a nice
earner for the lawyers (on both sides) but does little or nothing to
deter youth crime - surely one of its primary aims?

Of course I am not realistically suggesting birching youths (although I
personally do not have any philosophical objections to corporal
punishment), but you would regard with incredulity just how RARE it is
for a youth, whatever the crime, to be given a custodial sentence.

Last week, I prosecuted a youth for his 7th or 8th street robbery.
Result? Yet another Supervision Order - which he had already breached
on several occasions.

We certainly have "due process" (and you would, I hope, be impressed by
how impartial and fair Court proceedings are, especially if I'm
prosecuting - I certainly adhere to the principle that it's better that
10 guilty men go free than one innocent man is convicted, and do not
hesitate to drop cases when appropriate), the trouble is it's just a
conveyor belt of crime, prosectution, meanlingless sentence, crime,
prosecution, meanlingless sentence etc., etc. Deterrence plays no part
whatsoever.

In my view, it should.

Marc.