asdf wrote:
On 12 Oct 2006 16:33:41 -0700, wrote:
Yes, okay even if the queue was small etc., there MUST be a valid
method of me topping up by paying online. Otherwise, how am I supposed
to avail myself of the online advantage of having a record of journeys
made which, if I understand it correctly, is ONLY available if I top-up
online.
I believe you just need to top-up online once, and then you're able to
check your journey history online indefinitely.
Well, the system is hardly failsafe is it?! With that £1 debit, I
could have spent the whole day riding around the Underground with
impunity - just as much of a fare dodgers' paradise.
Erm, only if by fare dodger you mean someone who rides around on the
Tube all day without paying just for the thrill of it...
Yes, and there are quite a few (beggars etc.) who do just that.
OK, well they've always been able to do that just by buying a single
ticket. But I'm sure the vast, vast majority of fare evasion is by
people who are making a journey as a means of getting from A to B
rather than just for the fun of it.
As for fare-dodging, when I topped up, the gates were open for about 5
or 6 seconds, during which time anyone else could have walked in or out
with impunity.
This is hardly a huge hole in the system (and you're not even
"supposed" to top up in the manner described).
Why do you say this?
Which bit? It's not a huge hole because people hardly ever do what you
did, and even when you did, only one person (who was quick-thinking
and in the right place at the right time) would have had a brief
opportunity to get through the barriers without paying (and they would
still have had the problem of getting out at the other end).
The way you're "supposed" to top-up at the barriers, is by going
through and making an actual journey.
But that assumes (wrongly, in my case) that I will only top-up when
making a Tube journey. The ONLY time I need Pay as you Go is for
travelling on a bus. One can't top up on a bus, so how other than at a
Tube station am I supposed to top up?
The beginning of this thread had comments about the Oyster helpline
condoning the exact practice of topping up and then not making a
journey. So, it can't be that one is 'not even "supposed" to top up in
the manner described'.
As an interesting aside, what would have happened if I'd topped up,
then gone through the barrier and immediately left by an adjacent gate,
by touching out?
The gate would have refused to let you out, displaying a "seek
assistance" message.
Well they would HAVE to let me out, or else it would be false
imprisonment.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say - are you opposing the whole
concept of automatic gates? There's no point in having them if they
can't reject your ticket and stay closed. The staff at the side gate
would certainly have let you out.
No, I'm merely making the point that, with an Oyster card there is
NOTHING that states that I HAVE to make a journey to another station
before I leave the station by which I entered. I might change my mind
about a journey, decide to go back out for a cup of coffee etc., etc.,
or even just use the Oyster card as a free platform ticket. NONE of
this is contrary to any contract I have entered and consequently it is
simply wrong for £1 to be deducted from my Oyster card until such time
as I have made a journey to that value.
Why would the system not be able to cope with a touch-in,
touch-out situation completed say within a minute or 30 seconds of each
other resulting in a no-charge?
Because being able to open ticket gates for free creates lots of holes
in the system. Use your imagination.
Yes, I accept that. But the system created is so anomalous in the first
place. Don't forget, we have ONLY been discussing pay as you go. We
haven't even discussed the possibility of a Travelcard Oyster being
used for those purposes with impunity!
If I were really devious, and used
that as a ruse to then go on and make a journey, the system would
surely pick this up when I tried to touch out somewhere else and make
the appropriate charge at that stage.
You could do the same thing at the other end - lean across and touch
"in" on the other side of the gates, then touch out and walk out for
free.
I didn't think it was possible to reach across the barrier as
suggested. I'll have a better look on Monday when I next use the Tube.
If it's that easy, what's to stop someone travelling in from Zone 6 to
Zone 1 having 2 Oyster cards, one for each zone, and each time doing
what you suggest?
Marc.