Andy wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

(snip)

I've just has a look into the Ilford to Liverpool Street query you were
wondering about. My two sources for information are the list of NR
routes where Oyster PAYG is accepted [1], and also the new map that
illustrates which NR routes accept Oyster PAYG [2]. Basically my
conclusion is that the passenger needs to touch-in on the platform
reader at Stratford. I'm 99.9% certain about this as well (because I'm
annoying like that).

I'll presume that the passenger, Mr X, has a zones 3&4 Travelcard
loaded on their Oyster card.

~~~~~
The Ilford to Stratford NR portion of the journey is an NR route where
PAYG is *not accepted*. However Mr X has a Z34 Travelcard for that part
of the journey, which is fine. The gates at Ilford (if there are any)
will let Mr X through as he has a valid Travelcard on his Oyster - but
they don't provide an entry point or onto the PAYG system and
electronically 'mark' his Oyster card , because PAYG *isn't accepted*
from Ilford.

The Stratford to Liverpool Street portion of the journey is a NR route
where PAYG *is accepted*. However Mr X has not yet entered onto the
PAYG system - the Ilford to Stratford journey has been carried out
under the auspices of his Z34 Travelcard. He thus needs to enter onto
the PAYG system - by touching-in on the platform reader at Stratford
he's 'marked' his Oyster card with an entry point and can then continue
to Liverpool Street.

On exiting the gates at Liverpool Street the system will adjust his
balance to ensure the correct fare for Stratford to Liverpool Street is
from his card - in the case of Mr X that'll be a zones 1&2 single
journey, as his Travelcard already covers zone 3.
~~~~~

The critical thing is to 'mark' your Oyster card when you enter and
leave the PAYG system (in this case at Stratford). Merely using an
Oyster card to pass through automatic gates at an NR station that
*doesn't accept PAYG* (such as Ilford) is no good - said gates merely
check to see if you have a valid Travelcard on your Oyster, they don't
do anything else whatsoever.


Hope that's cleared things up.



Actually, I don't think that the system works like this. I have a Zone
1-2 Annual Oyster Travelcard and on occasion I travel to Moor Park. If
I look at the pre-pay journeys, on the website, my 'touching in' in
Zone 2 doesn't appear and I just see the correct amount (GBP1.00 on a
Saturday) deducted upon exiting at Moor Park. Going the other way, GBP
1.00 is deducted on entry at Moor Park and the Exit (in Zone 1) is
marked up as GBP 0.00. The systems seems to be assuming that I have
started the journey within my Travelcard zones and the pre-pay only
comes into play when I touch in/out outside the Travelcard validity.

Bear in mind that this is what is presented to you as a passenger, not
neccessarily what is actually recorded on your Oyster card.

Let's say your journey to Moor Park starts at Finchley Road (zone 2
Underground station) and you have a Z1&2 Travelcard loaded on your
Oyster.

When you touch-in at Finchley Road your card is electronically marked
with zone 2 as your start point - this would be the case whether you
were going out of town to Moor Park or into town to Kings Cross.

Thus when you get to Moor Park and touch-out the system knows how much
extra to charge you - as you already had zone 2 covered which is a
single Z3-6 journey.

If, however, you walked through an open gate at Finchley Road and
didn't touch-in your card would not have an electronic mark recording
your start point.

Thus when you go to Moor Park the system would not know where you've
started your journey, so would not know how to calculate the fare
charged. At the moment, when this occurs the minimum fare from that
station is charged. From 19 November 2006 you will be charged £4.00
(which is a kind of maximum fare). I think it's important to note that
the system will _not_ presume you've come from zone 2 just because you
have a Travelcard loaded on your Oyster.

Another thing to note is that if you're just travelling within the
zonal validity of your Travelcard it appears there won't be a
requirement to touch-in and out - so you'll be able to walk through the
open gate at Finchley Road without touching-in and exit through the
gates at Kings Cross without being penalised (this has not yet been
confiemed though).


So, for the Ilford - Liverpool Street journey, if it is all on Oyster,
the extension to Liverpool Street should be charged upon exiting, using
the travelcard validity as 'start' point. The Oystercard helpline have
confirmed that this is how the prepay works for extensions out of Zones
1-2, I'd assume that it works the same going in as well.

No - because Oyster PAYG is *not* valid from Ilford (just as it's not
valid from most National Rail stations). Even if you pass through the
gates at Ilford, they will *not* mark your Oyster card - they thus
_do_not_ serve as an entry point onto the PAYG system. If you're making
a journey that has a PAYG element you _need_ to touch-in at the
beginning of the leg of your journey where PAYG is accepted.

The gates at Ilford are "dumb" - the only thing they do with an Oyster
card is check whether or not it has a valid Travelcard on it for the
zone the station is in. They have no PAYG intelligence whatsoever. _If_
Ilford was an Underground station the situation would be different - in
that case they would provide an entry point to the PAYG system, and
would electronically mark your card as such. But Ilford is a National
Rail station and PAYG is a definitely not valid from there.

Annoying, maybe, but that's the way it is for the moment. (Also
annoyingly) I'm 99.9% certain that everything I've said above is
correct.