Paul G wrote:
In message , David of Broadway
writes
Paul G wrote:
In message , David of Broadway
writes
Paul Corfield wrote:
How to confuse absolutely everybody. I've already seen people looking
very confused when they have heard the announcements and read the
posters about the change to pre-pay only rules. Shame no one has made
that distinction in the publicity.

Hmmm. Didn't somebody suggest right here on this newsgroup that,
whatever the rules are, they should apply to everybody, PAYG and
Travelcard alike?

Maybe there was some sense in that suggestion!
PAYG and travelcard rules can't be alike for various technical
reasons (currently including many national rail stations without
Oystercard readers), unless all PAYG users pay the minimum possible
fare instead of the correct fare for their journey (which I suspect
isn't really financially viable).

Sure they can. They can implicitly assume that everybody is honest,
barring any evidence to the contrary. Most Underground travelers
encounter barriers at both ends, so they will be forced to be honest.
Would be lovely; sadly people aren't always honest. Indeed crime goes
down when you put more ticket inspectors in place (on National Rail).
That's why you need checks and balances in the system.

Obviously.

You're also ignoring that most London National Rail stations don't have
ticket barriers (although this could be dealt with by your point below)
and it's not viable; nor are ticket barriers closed at unmanned
stations; nor can users touch out if they didn't touch in (e.g. zone
extensions from stations outside of the Oyster area); I'm sure there's more

That's why I suggested Oyster readers on the trains.

Incidentally, why not leave barriers closed at unmanned stations, with a
large, prominent button that would open the barriers in an emergency?
(The person pushing the button would be caught on video, so he might not
want to push the button frivolously on a regular basis.)

That's very much unlike the current system, in which PAYG users are
implicitly assumed to be dishonest while Travelcard users are
implicitly assumed to be honest.
There's (currently) no alternatively for Travelcard users. It's a case
of better to accurately categorise some journeys than none at all.

Understood. But surely the vast majority of Travelcard users are
traveling between stations with Oyster readers, no?

In any case, it's been announced that all NR stations within the zones
will be receiving Oyster readers in the coming years. So the problem is
a temporary one, in any case.

You want to assume dishonesty? Fine. Install Oyster readers on the
trains themselves. If your station doesn't have a reader, you can
touch in or out when you enter or exit the train. Anybody who fails
to touch in and out, regardless of fare type (PAYG or Travelcard), is
fined.
Again this wouldn't cover all situations (see above), unless there was a
flat fare style system.

What situations am I missing? If, for whatever reason, you didn't touch
in at the station, you can touch in on the train. I suppose that,
getting off, you need to know in advance whether to touch out on the
train or not -- there could be an announcement on the train, and the
readers could be programmed not to get confused if somebody touches out
on the train and again a few minutes later in the station.

I would have also thought there are more
carriages than stations, so it would have extra cost implications.

What about people coming from outside the zones?
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA