James Farrar wrote:
On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 06:08:02 GMT, David of Broadway
wrote:

James Farrar wrote:
On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 02:08:03 GMT, David of Broadway
wrote:

Sure they can. They can implicitly assume that everybody is honest,
barring any evidence to the contrary.
That would require PAYG users to "pay the minimum possible fare
instead of the correct fare for their journey".
Only where they can do the same with paper tickets.

I don't follow this. Can you explain further?

Wherever you claim that (in the absence of a penalty fare) PAYG users
can get by with paying the minimum possible fare instead of the correct
fare for their journey, so can paper ticket users. And, for that
matter, Travelcard users. It's only PAYG users who are being subjected
to this additional degree of scrutiny.

Somebody traveling on a paper ticket or Travelcard from an ungated
station to a Z1 station can get by with a Z1 ticket, even if his ungated
station of origin is in Z6, unless he's caught outside his zones.

Most Underground travelers
encounter barriers at both ends, so they will be forced to be honest.
Or jump gates, or follow others through the gates. Which would happen
in large numbers for people travelling more than one zone.
Have jumping and following been major problems with paper tickets?

It happens to me maybe 5-6 times a year, so of the order of 1 gate
usage in 250.

In other words, the issue can't be ignored entirely, but it's not a
terribly big deal either.

About half the time, I notice it happening, and stop dead on the far
side of the gate, causing the perpetrator to be foiled by the closing
gate.

Nice!

Aside from history, why does the Tube use gates rather than turnstiles?
It seems to me that turnstiles would be more resistant to this sort of
abuse. (Although the floor-to-ceiling "high entry-exit turnstiles" that
are installed in New York at unattended entrances make it particularly
easy. Just the other day, I saw two high school kids get ticketed for
sharing a fare.)

And why wouldn't jumping and following not be problems under the current
fare structure?

Under PAYG-users-pay-minimum, a passenger travelling from Z6 to Z1 can
jump/follow at their first station, knowing that when they get to the
final station, they'll only be charged the Z1 fare.

Having to jump/follow twice is far more risky. People still do it, but
fewer than would if they only have to do it once.

What about ungated stations? Jumping/following yields a free ride,
regardless of fare structure.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA