On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 19:13:45 +0000, Dave A wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote:
On 31 Jan 2007 08:16:48 -0800, "Mizter T" wrote:
Mizter T wrote:
From BBC news online http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6316245.stm
----------
Train firms to adopt Oyster cards
Train operators have agreed to introduce Oyster cards in London after
accepting a £20m grant from the mayor.
(snip)
----------
Wow - looks like the Mayor's risky brinkmanship has paid off.[...]
(snip)
It seems like the train companies haven't said an unequivocal yes to
Oyster Pay-as-you-go yet! The BBC story linked to above has
subsequently been updated to include this comment from Mayor Ken:
-----
Mayor of London Ken Livingstone said: "This is a step in the right
direction, however there is some way to go before an agreement is
reached.
"Transport for London will work with the companies over the next two
months to try to resolve outstanding issues."
-----
The TfL statement confirms recent comments made here on utl that
Southern and Southeastern TOCs (both run by Govia) in particular have
concerns. The ATOC statement fleshes out some of those concerns -
alongside concerns about the extra processing needed to run the Oyster
PAYG system they also have concerns that Oyster PAYG might help to
assist fare evasion (I can see potential issues about short ticket
fraud for example). ATOC also suggest that smartcard ticketing ideally
needs ticket gates at all stations and points out that in contrast to
LU's network which is comprehensively gated, only 70 National Rail
stations in the capital have gates whilst the other 260 don't.
Nonetheless ATOC's statement does state that "These issues can be
overcome [...]".
It seems that in response to the Mayor's offer, on the deadline day
the TOCs have managed to say "yes, but..." - nonetheless this is
progress. Interesting times lie ahead.
I am not the least bit surprised by this. What is interesting is that
both sides have "compromised" at this stage to present a seemingly
positive stance. The reality is that this just buys more time for each
side to pressure the other. The danger with this is that the precedent
of extending deadlines has now been established and I'd expect another
last minute "who blinks first" stance to emerge. I think the TOCs think
they can get more than £20m out of the Mayor for this scheme. Apart from
political, DfT and customer sanction I'm not sure what the Mayor can do
in return.
I note the comments about fraud - given that the Oyster card is more
secure than a magnetic ticket I find that an interesting stance for the
TOCs to take. I do hope they don't imagine they're going to get gates at
the remaining 260 stations. If they were really so concerned perhaps
they would be gating all of those stations anyway or at least restoring
ticket inspections on a regular basis? - I realise one or two TOCs are
being a bit more proactive on these issues (typically those with new
franchise deals!).
The pointed remark about ITSO compatible dual card readers is also
interesting. How many TOCs have signed up to ITSO compatible card
retailing and ticket gates outside of the London area?
Pardon my cynicism but I wonder what we'll be discussing on 31 March
2007?
There is some more information from One on their own approach to PAYG
rollout:
http://www.onerailway.com/templates/...e.aspx?id=2584
Basically from Spring 2008, PAYG will be available at all the
intermediate stations along the current PAYG routes from Liverpool
St/Stratford to Seven Sisters/Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow Central, plus
the whole Chingford branch. The following year (Spring 2009),
availability will be extended to all other One stations within the zonal
area (although the announcement is slightly ambiguous about whether
Romford-Upminster will be included - I'm guessing it will).
To be fair to One they have at least had the gumption to join in where
it is most sensible and as early as possible. I certainly see and hear
plenty of people beeping their cards when they alight from a train from
Liv St at Walthamstow Central. PAYG must therefore be attractive to a
proportion of passengers on that line as it is an extremely convenient
way to reach the City. I'm naturally pleased the Chingford line will be
done soon and I think it will help further grow the traffic on the line
if convenient fares are offered off peak. Now all we need are some
extra stations and we'd have a very useful line indeed.
I'm surprised the other lines will take a bit longer as there is
obviously a data backbone and central system of sorts already in place
to deal with the validation data and this should be easy to extend.
Ticket selling is rather more involved as One has struggled to provide
compatible retailing equipment at Walthamstow and we currently have TfL
machines installed alongside One passenger operated machines. I have no
idea how easy it will be to update POMs to add Travelcards and PAYG to
Oyster cards - this is pretty much essential given that ticket office
hours are pretty damn poor.
I'd say it was essential that Romford - Upminster was included although
I'm not sure "Emerson Park proof" ticketing equipment actually exists.
I believe it is one place where there is no ticketing equipment of any
sort due to the rampant vandalism there. You then end up with the
question of how does a guard / conductor retail Oyster.
First Great Western say 2009 within London:
http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/NewsItem.aspx?id=431
That's encouraging but I still see some hints of the Southern / SET
reticence in their press release. It will be interesting to see if HEX
/ HConnect join in or not.
Silverlink have already said they hope to accept Oyster by the autumn on
the Metro routes (before the London Rail concession begins):
http://www.silverlink-trains.com/tem...e.aspx?id=1209
This is simply bowing to the inevitable and I wouldn't be surprised if
special arrangements are in place here that means it costs Silverlink
nothing to implement or run. It's hugely to TfL's benefit that this
happens ASAP and if I was Silverlink I'd have made that point in
negotiations.
--
Paul C
Admits to working for London Underground!