"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:44:07 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
wrote:

What, with sufficient space for bikes, prams and kitchen sinks (otherwise
known as a *guards van*)? My understanding was Electrostars optimised
for
passengers (longitudinal seats - lots of standing room).

And thus lots of multipurpose space for bikes, prams and kitchen
sinks. The guard's van is not a solution to every problem, especially
where it leaves wheelchair users travelling in unpleasant conditions,
bicycles away from their owners (I wouldn't like to leave mine
unattended on the NLL) and fewer seats than could otherwise be
provided for the peaks, when said bicycles aren't allowed and kitchen
sinks may be frowned upon.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

I'm sorry, but you've swallowed propaganda and/or the situation as it is.
There is no good reason to stop people bringing bicycles, prams, kitchen
sinks etc. on to trains at any time except the fact that successve
governments of all persuasions have restricted the investment in rolling
stock so that there is only space for passengers. I'll say it again, if
we're going to encourage people to use public transport (and I accept not
everyone believes in that idea) then we need to make it practical for people
to use. That means they have to be able to bring their baggage (in the
widest sense of that word) and find somewhere to stow it. Whether that
space is a guards van is not the point - I was simply trying to make the
point, not suggest it as the only solution. The real issue is two fold (1)
there has to be enough stock to make it feasible and (2) that stock has to
be designed in such a way as to accommodate bulky and unusually sized items.
In my view a simple train with any form of seating (logitudinal or
transverse) and a wheelchair space that might be availabel for other items
doesn't cut the mustard.

I will admit to a particular prediliction regarding bikes and trains. I
regard the two together as a very potent travel tool and the current
situation where (1) the rules vary by TOC (2) in many cases you cannot
simply turn up and go (3) there may be a ludicrously low (two) limit on the
number of bikes per train (4) you have to pay sometimes (5) there may be
time restrictions on when a bike can be take on a train all mitigate against
one of the quickest and most efficient combinations of transport I know.