On 15 Sep, 18:48, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote:

This is a hoary old subject I think but nonetheless, the real
potential benefit of the WLL for avoiding central London would be for
journeys from places on the WCML to places on the south coast. This
wouldn't have to be by through train but instead via a change at say
Watford Junction, Rugby or Milton Keynes Central onto a train via the
WLL to the south.

The last point of course speaks of the bigger problem of meshing two
separate 'networks' - that north of, and that south of the WLL - with
all the attendant problems that occur if a train is late or even
early. And of course the WLL is very busy with freight and hosts an
increasingly popular local passenger service - half-hourly at present
but the plan is for a more frequent service, possibly with some trains
running through beyond Willesden Junction along the North London Line.

Instead of trying to run extra Southern trains in amongst the (current)
Silverlink, why not run a Southern service in the path of a Silverlink to
Northampton, and run a corresponding Silverlink down the WLL? Clearly the
timetables would have to match up, and no doubt pax would scream about not
running to Euston, but presumably a high proportion go on from the terminus
as is usual?


I think I understand your idea - I was somewhat confused by which
Silverlink you meant though, as Silverlink Metro is a rather distinct
operation from Silverlink County - and in the context of what we're on
about then Silverlink Metro operates the WLL stopping service between
Clapham and Willesden Junctions (which are neither in Clapham or
Willesden but I digress) as well as the North London Line, whilst
Silverlink County operates the fast trains up the WCML (all of which
you know already but I'm just clarifying things).

Three fundamental issues with your suggestion - trains from the WCML
that run onto the WLL cannot stop at Willesden Junction as there's no
platforms there on these lines anymore. Thus running a train from the
WCML to the WLL would miss out on picking up all the passengers
waiting at Willesden Jn to go south, of which there are a large
number, and vice-versa pax couldn't use these northbound trains to get
to Willesden Jn. This is no good as in essence the plans are to
increase the frequency of the Junction to Junction service.

Secondly the idea that many Silverlink County pax from WCML stations
would be happy being deposited along the WLL is not right IMO. The WLL
does offer interchange with the District line but I'd be pretty
certain most people weren't heading to this part of town. In addition
there'd then be a less frequent Silverlink County service north from
Euston, which wouldn't be popular.

Thirdly and critically there's always the issue of paving and
conflicts. I think that trains from WCML slow lines to the WLL need to
cross the WCML fast lines on a flat junction, so any such moves block
up the fast lines.

It does feel somewhat like the WLL is this magnificent cross-London
route that has never quite lived up to its potential - however it's
well used by freight trains, and is in demand to play host to more
local passenger trains. Perhaps calling them "local passenger trains"
is misleading people here - the Willesden Jn to Clapham Jn link is a
very well patronised service, and its popularity is growing even
though it remains half-hourly. In addition it is part of the whole
orbirail concept - where lots of orbital rail services are linked up
(phase 2 of the East London Line extension would take it to Clapham
Junction). Whilst any single train service almost certainly wouldn't
complete a whole orbit (i.e. circuit) passengers could nonetheless
easily change from one train to another to complete orbital journeys.

Both the WLL and NLL are very well patronised, so perhaps lamenting
the WLL's lack of fulfilled potential is wrong - it is a critical
piece of fulfilling a successful new orbital rail 'system' for London.


All in all whilst the WLL certainly appears initially to be ripe for
use by cross-London trains, in reality it's all a bit more
complicated. Indeed the current hourly(ish) Southern Watford-CJ-
Gatwich-Brighton service is under threat. The current plans appear to
extend it up to Milton Keynes - which is good, at least with regard to
connecting with WCML trains. However it will also then get truncated
at CJ - which is bad for those heading further south (yes they can
change at CJ, but the benefit to many such passengers is that they
don't have to change - especially those heading for Gatwick, plus the
change at CJ is very awkward up a steep and narrow flight of stairs -
not good with luggage).

The West London Line Group follows developments on both WLL passenger
services (i.e. Southern and Silverlink Metro) - in particular their
latest August newsletter contains details of these possible changes:
http://www.westlondonlinegroup.org.uk/

I think they're already out of date - isn't the latest idea in the South
London RUS to run to at least South Croydon?

Paul S

I don't know to be honest. Perhaps I'll try and pile through the RUS
to find out.

My only observation is that the user's group seems somewhat more
focused on the Southern service than the Silverlink Metro one - but
then again, if the Southern service is under threat, whilst the
Silverlink Metro will be in safe hands as part of London Overground
from November, then I guess they're justifiably focussing their
attentions on what matters.