On Fri, 21 Sep 2007, Mizter T wrote:

On 21 Sep, 01:43, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007, MIG wrote:

I forgot to mention that they would also have been running from
Moorgate to Drayton Park in 1966, on what is now part of First Capital
Connect.

As seen on the strip map in this photo from the tour:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1415/...86b55a4e_o.jpg

I hadn't realised there was a time when that bit of line only ran to
Drayton Park [...] This seems rather silly - having the line only go to
Drayton Park makes it almost completely useless! How long did that
situation last? Crumbs - according to CULG, from 1964 to 1976! It would
only have been useful as a local service from Essex Road, Highbury &
Islington and Drayton Park into the City, and for people coming on the
Victoria line from Finsbury Park or Blackhorse Road (the other stations
have direct connections to Liverpool Street anyway). Luxury! What was
the frequency like? With that kind of demand, i would guess low enough
that people would be better off taking either a bus or the Northern
from King's Cross instead.

I've no idea how well loaded the Northern City line was when it was
evicted from Finsbury Park and just ran Drayton Park to Moorgate.
However I do remember reading a fairly detailed account of the
Moorgate crash in 1975 which happened in the morning rush-hour, and it
certainly gave the impression that the line was well used.

Bear in mind that the line would have found a number of new passengers
who would have started to make use of it from Highbury & Islington
southwards when the Victoria line opened from Walthamstow Central to
High & I in 1968 - I'd suggest the number of pax reaching it via this
interchange may well have been substational.

You reckon? You think that people at Walthamstow Central, Tottenham Hale
and Seven Sisters would have taken the Vic and changed at High & I for
Moorgate, rather than hopping on a direct train to Liverpool Street? And
that people at Finsbury Park would have done the same rather than taking a
direct train to Broad Street (which, AIUI, still ran at this point)?

Blackhorse Road is the only Vic station where changing to the GN&CR is the
best route, i think.

You can also get onto the GN&CR from the NLL at Highbury & Islington, but
again, i think that line ran to Broad Street at that time.

Did the link from the NLL to the GN not exist before the Moorgate line
was plumbed in? What did the railways round that area look like in,
say, 1965?

The link from the NLL to the GN - the Canonbury Curve - has existed
since 1875.
See http://www.nlrhs.org.uk/history.html

It carried a number of suburban trains from the GN down to Broad Street
via the Canonbury Curve (between Finsbury Park and Canonbury) then down
via the closed line (though shortly to be mostly reopened as part of the
ELLX) from Dalston Junction to Broad Street.

Right, i didn't realise there was a GN service to Broad Street like that.

What i hadn't realised is that, as John Band pointed out, there *was* a
link from the GN to the GN&CR at that time, it just wasn't the one we have
now.

Some diesel trains continued on this route until the 1976 GN
electrification, from whence customers could of course use direct GN
trains that were routed through the Northern City tunnels to Moorgate (a
stone's throw from Broad Street).

Like i said!

Before the 1976 changes, there was nonetheless a single line link
between the LU depot at Drayton Park (adjacent to the station) and the
GN line at Finsbury Park, and this was used for LU rolling stock
transfers.

And the GN to Broad Street trains, right? Or am i confused again?

tom

--
If it ain't broke, open it up and see what makes it so bloody special.