On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:20:58 +0100, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


"Mizter T" wrote in message
roups.com...
On 13 Oct, 12:51, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message

(snip)

Oyster PAYG will be extended to Watford Junction but there will be no
change to the zonal validity of Travelcards nor of Freedom Passes. I
know no more than this (via another group) so it is a case of wait and
see.

You would imagine the ticketing system precedent for West Midlands
purposes
is whatever method of farebox split is used to Amersham with Chiltern, so
there shouldn't need to be any need to reinvent the wheel in this case?
Obviously VWC won't take part due to their pick up & set down
restrictions...

Dunno about that Paul. AIUI the traditional arrangement between
Chiltern Railways and LU was that whoever sold the ticket kept the
cash - and as part of this deal LU provided 'free' access to their
metals. Maybe I'm very wrong on that though.

I don't know if this situation has been modified, but whatever the
idea that whoever sells the ticket keeps the cash doesn't translate at
all well to Oyster PAYG.


But isn't PAYG already available on Chiltern or LU from Amersham - maybe the
cash is divvied up at the southern end of the journey, depending on where
you enter or leave the system? Paul C has previously mentioned that there is
a different default deduction on the joint LU/NR routes - perhaps this is
part of the system?

I'm not close to the detail on all of this these days but I would guess
it works as you suggest. Where Oyster PAYG is used on a shared section
like Harrow to Chorleywood it is impossible to detect what train was
used. Therefore whatever the apportionment rules are for cash tickets
would apply to PAYG revenues. I can't see someone sitting down trying to
link the entry and exit times from card data to the most likely or
actual train departure / arrivals. Too much work for too little benefit.
Where PAYG data allows unequivocal decisions to be taken on what company
was used (as in Chiltern trains to and from Marylebone) then I would
expect the money would go the operator via the settlement process. The
only other comment to make is that all the above is fine and dandy but
who knows what impact ticketing history may have.

On the Watford Junction issue I doubt very much that London Midland will
voluntarily decide to accept PAYG to Watford Junction. However any
restriction will be extremely difficult to police given the
interavailability to Harrow and Wealdstone and the complete lack of
separation of platforms, exits and gatelines at Watford and Euston. If,
as Mr Thant says, stations north of the zone boundary are in Zone A then
the compromise is to set a fare value in that instance at a level that
London Midland can live with and which is acceptable to TfL. There will
probably be an element of "suck it and see" initially and once the usage
and revenue data stabilises then a more robust settlement position will
be put in place. The gradual moves over several years to adopt the LU
farescale on the line north of Queens Park show it can be done. The
only complication might be how NR pricing works - IIRC Harrow and
Wealdstone is a compilation point (might have the wrong term) for NR
fares and I think this is why PAYG is accepted at H&W but not LU cash
fares as that would mean using the LU fare for other pricing purposes.
The same issues might arise at Watford Junction with much bigger
implications for NR pricing.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!