On 13 Nov, 18:58, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 07:15:46 -0800, Mizter T
wrote:
On 13 Nov, 14:22, John B wrote:
On 13 Nov, 15:07, wrote:
Counting the zones isn't always reliable or accurate, as you and
others have pointed out in this thread. (The NLL route from Richmond
to Stratford doesn't go through zone one, but is priced as if it
does.)
Have we established that this is the case, or is it just conjecture
based on the status quo pre-London Overground? I'd be surprised if it
were [the case], given the obvious and immediate potential for
confusion, annoyance and bad PR...
--
John Band
The TfL Single Fare finder suggests it is priced as such - and I am
led to believe (perhaps wrongly) that the data used by that facility
matches that of the fares tables in the Oyster database.
I wouldn't rely on that finder being correct. I tried it a few months
ago for a journey via the WLL to Kensington and it offered a (not via
Zone 1) PAYG fare despite the route being invalid for PAYG.
snip
Aha... well, don't be so sure! I've been intending to post what I'm
about write for ages, but never did. Please read on...
I can say with some authority that despite PAYG not yet being valid on
the NLL at the time the Tfl Fares finder was right and that's what you
would have been charged. Back in February or March of this year (I
forget exactly when) I made a Highbury & Islington to Queen's Park
journey via Victoria and Bakerloo lines changing at Oxford Circus. I
had already reached my zone 1&2 daily cap so was totally bemused when
an extra 60p was deducted from my balance - i.e. my cap was now at the
zones 1-4 level of £5.20 rather than £4.60, despite the fact I hadn't
been in zone 3 - indeed, there was no valid route from H&I to QP
through zone 3.
Later on the penny dropped that the Oyster PAYG database had already
been updated to take account of PAYG on the NLL, either it was being
tested or perhaps there was something to the talk that PAYG might go
live whilst the line was still under Silverlink control.
Around that time I was travelling on the NLL a lot, so I did some
experiments. I'd like to make absolutely clear that at all times when
doing this I was travelling with a valid Travelcard season ticket that
covered all the applicable zones.
So I consulted the TfL Single Fares finder and worked out what the
system defined as via-Z1 journeys and those that avoided Z1 - and to
the best of my recollection they're the same today as they were then.
I then tried touching in and out at some of the main stations where
there were already gates activated for PAYG - i.e. stations shared
with an LU line. I did only try this by making journeys that were
defined as non-Z1 (i.e. what the TfL Fare finder said would cost £1),
and I'm pretty sure the journeys I made were Stratford to H&I, H&I to
Willesden Jn, and Willesden Jn to Kensington Olympia and separately
Willesden Jn to West Brompton. All of these journeys were charged at
£1.
I did them on an unregistered Oyster card, so I haven't got any
screenshots of my online journey history, but I did take a few mobile
phone photos of LU ticket machines displaying the journey history
which displayed what I'd done. Unfortunately that mobile phone ended
up meeting a watery demise (not down the loo thankfully) so after
doing all that I have no proof!
I would have come here and documented it at the time - indeed that's
why I actually conducted these experiments - but unfortunately life
suddenly got a bit hectic around then and contributing to a newsgroup
shifted down my list of priorities somewhat.
So there we go. I suppose my 'findings' from earlier this year aren't
solid proof about how other journeys might have been routed, but in my
mind there a good enough basis for me to think that the TfL Fares
finder is an accurate reflection of the current routing logic that's
at work inside TfL's big Oyster database.
One last thing - it would seem that in addition to the "Some journeys
have been defined as requiring travel via Zone 1 and will be charged
and capped accordingly, irrespective of the actual route taken"
statement (taken from the TfL Fares booklet), I've discovered that
"some journeys might also be defined as requiring travel via zone 3
and charged and capped accordingly" (a statement *not* taken from the
TfL Fares booklet). In the particular instance of a Highbury &
Islington to Queen's Park journey, this problem would be nullified if
Hampstead Heath was moved to zone 2 and Willesden Jn became a zone 2/3
station (a change which might well be on its way). However there might
be wider implications for other routes.