On 18 Nov 2007 18:44:09 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote:


Neil Williams wrote in article
...
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:24:31 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Definitely - this has been discussed often and confirmed. You
actually get
charged twice the maximum cash fare if a journey exceeds the 2 hour
limit,
because you end up with both an unresolved entry = £4.00, and an
unresolved
exit = £4.00.

Which is a nonsense, as there are journeys that can take that long.
3
or 4 hours would be more sensible.

Have you examples ?

It might be better to start with the out-of-station interchange
problem.

That is, you leave the system at an OoS intending to end your journey,
when you start another journey later but still within 2 hours of your
initial entry the Oyster system considers it a resumed journey but you
very soon hit the 2 hour timeout and are charged excessively
accordingly.

There are time limits for interchange between "sides" of an out of
station interchange. These are separate from anything to do with the 2
hour maximum journey time. If you exceed the OSI time then your second
journey will count as a new journey and the 2 hour limit restarts. There
may be people who exit at OSIs and who go about their business and then
enter at the other "side" of the OSI and unexpectedly do so within the
time limit and then effectively restart their first trip. I would
suggest the instances of the latter are small.

And before you ask no I don't know what the current OSI time limit is
for Oyster PAYG.

I suggest that in these circumstances, since you touched in properly,
the system should recalculate for two journeys.

And for a long journey, if you touched in/ validated anywhere during
the 2 hours then either the 2 hours should be extended from the last
touch in or the same recalculation for 2 journeys should occur.

I think we need to be careful here. What is not yet clear is quite what
universal PAYG acceptance on NR routes as well as LU, DLR and Overground
will look like.

My own view based on no inside knowledge is that there will be three
rates for PAYG. These will be the TfL scale as people currently
understand it and that will apply to LU, DLR and Overground. There will
then be a NR only PAYG rate which may or may not be the same prices as
the current NR zonal fares within Greater London and finally there will
be a PAYG version of the tube / train tariff that will charge for people
using NR to an interchange point with DLR, LU and Overground. The key
question is whether there will be any discount for PAYG holders relative
to the cash prices for NR zonal and tube / train tickets. This is all my
own musing and hence completely speculative but I can't see that the
TOCs could possibly contemplate charging the TfL PAYG values without a
commitment from TfL / DfT to pay increased subsidies. If there wasn't
to be a "shadow" PAYG rate I don't see why everyone went to so much
trouble creating zonal fares and charging at the last fares revision.

What rules will apply to journey times I don't know but I would venture
to suggest that a 2 maximum would not and could not apply in the case of
a tube / train journey or possibly some trips by Thameslink within the
zonal area. I also think TfL will need to fine tune the current 2 hour
time limit given that the scope of journeys has expanded with Overground
and the limited frequencies on some lines could cause people to easily
exceed 2 hours.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!