On 24 Jan, 17:45, MIG wrote:
On 24 Jan, 16:51, Mizter T wrote:

(snip)

One further point to make - use of the ELL replacement buses doesn't
cost anything extra (whilst a ticket is required, with Oyster you are
charged a 0p fare), whilst if one travelled on the 47 or 225 the
normal bus fare (90p when using Oyster PAYG) must be paid.-

Hmm. So if you are just going (say) New Cross to Surrey Quays on
PAYG, you don't get charged? Interesting loophole. Makes it much
more attractive after all. Or was that wishful misreading?


That is correct, you haven't misread it. I've been intending to post
about that for a while (along with a whole host of other things),
perhaps as part of a larger post about the ELL replacement buses, but
I haven't yet got round to it (in part because I wanted to gather a
little more 'evidence' first, plus I'm disorganised!).

So long as you have an Oyster card, you can get on the bus - the PAYG
fare as charged is 0p. I have done this with an Oyster card that had a
zero (£0.00) balance, though I suspect it wouldn't work on a card with
a minus balance (perhaps I'll try it some time) - but note that the
closure leaflet that details the replacement buses does state that, if
you are using Oyster PAYG, you need to have "Money on your Oyster card
to pay as you go" (so don't come complaining to me if you get n
trouble for doing this!).

Ian Jelf (I think) alerted me to this when he said he'd got charged 0p
when using the ELS bus between Whitechapel and Shoreditch - a fact
that I can verify - and the same applies on all the ELL replacement
buses. So yes, people who wish to travel between Canada Water/Surrey
Quays and New Cross can do so for 'free' on the ELC bus rather than
taking the 225 bus.

In reality I think this is the best way to configure the system. I
suppose there could be some complex system whereby touching-in on the
bus indicates the start of an Underground journey, and if one
transfers to the Underground, DLR or another ELL bus the journey is
continued. Likewise, if one has just got off the Underground or DLR at
an interchange station - i.e. Whitechapel, Shadwell or Canada Water -
or off another ELL bus, then again one could be presumed to be
continuing their journey. The lack of any facility to touch-out would
not matter as all ELL journeys are within zone 2, so the system could
merely presume it was a zone 2 journey.

However, as you can see any such implementation would be very
complicated.

What I haven't really though about until now is where one would buy a
paper ticket. Presumably New Cross and New Cross Gate stations will
continue to sell paper LU singles, and one can of course buy them at
Whitechapel and Canada Water. The leaflet also suggests that
passengers at Shadwell can use the DLR machines. This leaves Surrey
Quays, Rotherhithe and Wapping as places where you can't but a paper
ticket - given the proximity of Canada Water to the first two, I
suppose that's not such a big issue (although I guess it could be for
a few passengers). Pax wishing to use the replacement buses from these
points are thus far better off if they have an Oyster card - though in
reality, I strongly suspect that if you explained the situation to the
bus driver he would let you on anyway.

The leaflet also says that NX and NXG "will have their normal ticket
selling facilities" - this would seem to suggest that they will still
top-up Oyster cards there, despite the fact that since the ELL closure
Oyster PAYG is now not accepted on any trains from these stations. I
am curious as to whether (a) NX and NXG will remain kitted out for
topping up Oyster PAYG until 2010, (b) whether ticket office staff
will actually still sell you Oyster top-ups, not least because (c)
will any passengers actually ask them for this? I can certainly see
the staff getting asked by confused passengers if they can top-up
their Oyster for use on National Rail services - where it is not valid
- and therefore merely giving them the stock response that no they
cannot do this because Oyster PAYG cannot be used from this station.