On 15 Feb, 18:29, MIG wrote:
On 15 Feb, 15:59, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"John" wrote:
I only use my PAYG card very infrequently, but think I've been overcharged.
I've registered the card online and checked all the details of journeys I
made on one day recently - and they are correct. The problem from my point
of view relates to a journey where I didn't touch in but did touch out
resulting in a further £4 charge for that day. Not living within the Tfl
area I've only just found out they are allowed to do this i.e. charge more
than the daily price cap, which I consider sharp practice to say the least,
as this means the cap is in fact not the max you can pay. Is this fact
widely known?
Its on page 3 of the fares guide - you did pick a copy up?
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...nd-tickets-08-...
"Failure to touch in and out correctly will result
in you paying a maximum cash fare. This will
not count towards your daily price cap"
I guess TfL would argue that the regular warnings about touching in and out
are enough though, and the cap is the max you can pay if you use the system
properly.
The 'max cash fare' wasn't part of the system originally, but PAYG users
quickly discovered the benefits of only touching in at one end of a journey,
so that loophole got closed pretty quickly...
Paul S
The "benefit" for me was that I paid the correct fare without having
to get off the train and touch in/out at the point where I crossed
into the area covered by my paper travelcard. Now I get ripped off if
I don't go through that ridiculous exercise.
I have to say that if I regularly travelled outside the zones of my
Travelcard (on Oyster PAYG routes) I would just get my Travelcard on
Oyster.
I am well aware of the worries about surveillance that Oyster
potentially brings (and that you share) - however thus far there
haven't been any properly justified allegations (as opposed to
conspiracy theory talk) that travel data is being misused or widely
used for surveillance purposes by TPTB. However let's look at some
facts...
* "The usage history of each card is retained on an eight week rolling
basis".
* After eight weeks, "anonymised journey information is retained for
research purposes".
* Only "a limited number of authorised individuals within TfL can
access Oyster card data and no external organisations have direct
access to the data".
* Requests for such information are "assessed strictly in accordance
with the requirements of the Data Protection Act on a case by case
basis".
* Police requests for data are "submitted in accordance with guidance
from the Association of Chief Police Officers and are coordinated by
TfL's Information Access and Compliance Team."
The quotes are from TfL's responses to a letter from 'Coofer Cat' (who
actually appears to be a gent named Richard Bolton) - the questions he
had about Oyster were dealt with by TfL under the Freedom of
Information Act. You can read more on his website, the page concerning
all this is he
http://www.coofercat.com/wiki/OysterCardRFI
Note that the comments at the bottom are not his but those of readers.
Some contain unfounded allegations - in particular the notion that
"lots of people at EDS or Cubic Transportation Systems [...] have
access to the details" - read on for more on that.
I wish to make clear that I am certainly not one of these people who
sit back and say 'the authorities know best' or some such - however I
am pretty confident that Oyster travel data is well controlled, and
isn't leaking out here there and everywhere nor being used by the
police to monitor our every movement. TfL will be very keen to ensure
this remains the case, as they will wish to ensure that the public
retains confidence in the system.
If anyone has worries about their Oyster data then perhaps they might
wish to look closer to home first - e.g. a suspicious spouse, who
could physically take an Oyster card to a Tube ticket machine to see
the journey history (last 10 journeys at most).
Otherwise - and the following can only be done with a registered
Oyster card - they could gain access to the online Oyster account to
query the journey history there (though only PAYG journeys, not those
covered by Travelcards or Bus Passes), or get a print out of the
complete Journey History sent by post from TfL by calling the Oyster
helpline and giving them your details including your security answer.
Someone aware of these possibilities could of course take suitable
precautions.
All in all I really don't see Oyster as a spectacularly malevolent
tool of surveillance. Using an unregistered Oyster might quell some of
these concerns.
All that said, if I was heavily involved in the campaign against the
arms trade for example, I might think twice about using Oyster - but I
suspect that would merely be paranoia at work, unless something I was
planning (e.g. barricading a Saudi diplomat inside an arms fair) was
perceived as a genuine thread to the state/public order etc.
However I would be more inclined to focus my concern on the issues
surrounding how data might be handled by ATOC and the private train
and bus companies in the upcoming ITSO smartcard schemes (which
presumably will all work together - though there's no guarantee of
that). Will they all be as rigorous as TfL appear to be when it comes
to handling sensitive data, could they attempt to milk it for
marketing purposes, will each company have extensive access to a co-
ordinated national database if there is to be one etc etc?